D'Angelo Russell thread
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
bonkers wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Dlo wins a playoff game before the Magic-era Lakers (now defunct)...

That being said, this specific game really highlighted everything that's wrong with the Sixers. It wasn't really a great Dlo performance (at least compared to the new standard he set this season), or their starters for that matter - but Dinwiddie/Levert-led bench set the tone from the beginning with an excellent effort.

With Simmons' continued failure against playoff defenses that dare him to shoot, Embiid not being at 100%, and the inevitable Jimmy Butler blow-up at the rest of the team's lack of effort...the Nets are actually taking this series, right?


The Nets could win the damn chip, DLO finals MVP and there would still be people taking shots at him



Yeah... I could hear them now:

"I know he hit that long clutch 3 to win the title but he just doesnt look right to the eye test. Id still trade him for capspace that we didnt use last summer"


D'lo could hit a 3, in Game 7, in the last seconds, to win the NBA Championship for the Nets.

And there'd be people talking about

"Yeah but he was 9-23 before that shot..."


So he'll be as good as Kobe
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:43 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Explain to me the decreased frequency between DLo's time on the Lakers and his time on the Nets. Did he get less athletic between year two and year three?


Even his numbers with the Lakers weren't that impressive (.81 attempts per game in 2016).

Now his average is .57 attempts per game even with DLo shooting 10.7% better from the corner than overall.

Even without playmakers, teams can run sets to free up space for these shots. But only if the shooter has the speed and agility to run around a series of downscreens, stop on a dime, turn, and shoot.

Don't get me wrong, he will still be a perennial all star if he keeps up his post ASB play. I will no longer use the word replacement when bringing up DLo.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject:

People still finding ways to crap on DLO is just Eat crow DLO haters, he is playing better than everyone not named LeBron and we traded him. Also liked how Magic tried to save face by saying he wasn't mature enough when he was here. No you stupid MF! YOU(Magic) failed to stop your boy Byron from ruining this guys confidence while he was here.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Explain to me the decreased frequency between DLo's time on the Lakers and his time on the Nets. Did he get less athletic between year two and year three?


Even his numbers with the Lakers weren't that impressive (.81 attempts per game in 2016).

Now his average is .57 attempts per game even with DLo shooting 10.7% better from the corner than overall.

Even without playmakers, teams can run sets to free up space for these shots. But only if the shooter has the speed and agility to run around a series of downscreens, stop on a dime, turn, and shoot.

Don't get me wrong, he will still be a perennial all star if he keeps up his post ASB play. I will no longer use the word replacement when bringing up DLo.

We're not discussing "impressive." You've made the assertion that DLo is not physically capable of "running around a series of downscreens, stop[ping] on a dime, turn[ing], and shoot[ing]." I'll try to track down anecdotal video evidence to the contrary tomorrow, but regardless there are two things that are true that you are not addressing: 1) DLo attempted around .140 of his 3s from the corners in his first two seasons a Laker (hitting a respectable 41%), which then decreased when he moved to the Nets, and 2) Steph Curry's career corner 3PA rate is .144 and he even attempted more of his 3s from the corners during his first four years than later in his career.

So what changed for Russell to cause a decrease in his ratio of 3PAs as a Laker to that as a Brooklyn Net? What changed? He's surrounded by better ball-handlers and passers in Brooklyn with a more analytics friendly offense, so why is he attempting fewer corner 3s as a proportion of his overall 3PAs? Why did he go from attempting corner 3s at a rate comparable to Steph Curry to one more comparable to that of Damian Lillard? What changed?

A more compelling argument would involve more granular data that we may not have public access to - how many corner 3PAs are coming in transition versus half court; what is the average distance of defenders on different players' corner 3PAs, etc. But in the absence of said data, the only thing different I can see between DLo attempting a Steph Curry-esque ratio of corner 3s to a Damian Lillard-esque ratio is scheme and his role within that scheme.

Lastly: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fm2W0sq9ddU
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Explain to me the decreased frequency between DLo's time on the Lakers and his time on the Nets. Did he get less athletic between year two and year three?


Even his numbers with the Lakers weren't that impressive (.81 attempts per game in 2016).

Now his average is .57 attempts per game even with DLo shooting 10.7% better from the corner than overall.

Even without playmakers, teams can run sets to free up space for these shots. But only if the shooter has the speed and agility to run around a series of downscreens, stop on a dime, turn, and shoot.

Don't get me wrong, he will still be a perennial all star if he keeps up his post ASB play. I will no longer use the word replacement when bringing up DLo.

We're not discussing "impressive." You've made the assertion that DLo is not physically capable of "running around a series of downscreens, stop[ping] on a dime, turn[ing], and shoot[ing]." I'll try to track down anecdotal video evidence to the contrary tomorrow, but regardless there are two things that are true that you are not addressing: 1) DLo attempted around .140 of his 3s from the corners in his first two seasons a Laker (hitting a respectable 41%), which then decreased when he moved to the Nets, and 2) Steph Curry's career corner 3PA rate is .144 and he even attempted more of his 3s from the corners during his first four years than later in his career.

So what changed for Russell to cause a decrease in his ratio of 3PAs as a Laker to that as a Brooklyn Net? What changed? He's surrounded by better ball-handlers and passers in Brooklyn with a more analytics friendly offense, so why is he attempting fewer corner 3s as a proportion of his overall 3PAs? Why did he go from attempting corner 3s at a rate comparable to Steph Curry to one more comparable to that of Damian Lillard? What changed?

A more compelling argument would involve more granular data that we may not have public access to - how many corner 3PAs are coming in transition versus half court; what is the average distance of defenders on different players' corner 3PAs, etc. But in the absence of said data, the only thing different I can see between DLo attempting a Steph Curry-esque ratio of corner 3s to a Damian Lillard-esque ratio is scheme and his role within that scheme.

Lastly: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fm2W0sq9ddU


In short, if DLo was good at running around screens and getting to the corner for an open look, his coach would find a way to get him the ball more often in those situations. Curry would have a much higher attempt rate, but opposing coaches plan around stopping his corner 3, as Curry is a career 50% shooter from there. As a result of Curry's movement and teams scrambling to rotate, mismatches are created and lanes open up.

In year one, 1 of DLo's every 7 attempts came from the corner. He only took 4.6 overall per game because of Byron handcuffing him, but at any rate, 0.66 attempts per game from the corner is roughly the same as what he's done in Brooklyn.

His second year, Luke had him on and off the ball at different times (to very little success with the latter), leading to 0.81 attempts from the corner per night.

Not surprising his corner attempts are slightly down in Brooklyn, where he was named the PG on day one. Playing off the ball more his 2nd year may have yielded an extra corner attempt every four games, essentially the difference between that and his third year.

I have no data on the following, but corner threes in transition are pretty rare. Most are probably off of (also rare) backcourt turnovers.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject:

VujacicForThree wrote:
Also liked how Magic tried to save face by saying he wasn't mature enough when he was here. No you stupid MF! YOU(Magic) failed to stop your boy Byron from ruining this guys confidence while he was here.


Tragic Quitter Johnson, preaches leadership.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:56 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Nets even got rid of Moz easily.


Nets did lose the last year of his contract, but had to take back 3 million extra for this season.


That's an amazing deal. Way better than all the money we wasted on journeymen this season. Sad thing is I have no hope of Lakers finding and developing bargains like Harris, Dinwiddie. We are good at drafting, but then Maginka gave away DLO, Randle and ZU for the heck of it.


Our FO did suck and made some stupid moves. But consider the alternative to dumping Mozgov's contract in 2017, and doing what the Nets did, and what that would mean with Deng already on the books.

We'd leave ourselves with $33 million in total dead capspace (with Dwight's contract of $18.9M after the buyout and Deng's $14.3M hit this year), then swap in DLo's money for Hart (another $5.3M) leaves us with:


_________________________________________________
$18.90M Dwight Howard (buyout)
$14.35M Luol Deng (buyout)
$12.00M Julius Randle (cap hold, "PAY ME")
$7.45M Lonzo Ball(or another #2 pick at the same salary)
$7.02M D'Angelo Russell
$5.76M Brandon Ingram
$1.76M Mo Wagner
$1.68M Kyle Kuzma (as the 28th pick)
$1.54M Ivica Zubac
$0.89M cap hold
$0.89M cap hold
$0.89M cap hold
$0.89M cap hold
$73.13M total

$29.77M cap space

We'd have to renounce Randle, or if you wanted to keep him, or trade Lonzo just to sign LeBron. I think LeBron spends another year in Cleveland rather than join the squad above.


Yeah... and...

Im personally ok with not getting LeBron and keeping our young players and coach
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:01 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
DLo isn't an effective off-ball player? And his offense already offsets his defense if he never improves from this point forward.


Yea, DLo can actually spot up and shoot. Simmons is the one who can't be effective without the ball and even limited with the ball as defenders sag off as he can't shoot.


Spotting up is one thing, cutting hard to that spot and forcing defenders to switch onto him, even if it leaves them out of position, is something I haven't seen from him. His man is able to stick him on nearly all his cuts.

In the NBA, cutting to the corner is difficult because there's barely any room with the NBA 3-pt line. Russell is very good from there, but only attempts one every three games.


Actually, he makes really good off ball cuts and baseline cuts.
Players getting it to him is another issue.
I think Zo would actually work well with him...


If DLo made effective cuts regularly, I can't see how a decent passer like Dinwiddie would miss him that often, to the point where he makes just .75 assisted two pointers per game. Even if Russell's movement was quicker and more active, not being able to finish above the rim would still limit his off-ball effectiveness. I rarely see backdoor plays work for guards under 6'6 in this league unless there's a dunk involved.

I think any Zo/DLo pairing would force Zo to play too much on ball defense vs opposing star guards. He and Ingram can do it, however it takes away from their other strengths, such as scoring (Ingram) and denial/help/recover defense (Zo).


Ive watched alot of Nets games this season, and Dinwiddie isnt as good a passer as Zo. Also, they dont necessarily pay that many minutes together.
I have seen DLO make really good cuts and not get the ball plenty.

So your argument is that if Zo/DLo were together that would somehow take away from BI and Zo?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:30 am    Post subject:

This is only his 4th season and he took huge strides this season. He has another level left in him imo. I expect 25/8 type season from him in a year or two on Top 4 seed Nets.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:14 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Explain to me the decreased frequency between DLo's time on the Lakers and his time on the Nets. Did he get less athletic between year two and year three?


Even his numbers with the Lakers weren't that impressive (.81 attempts per game in 2016).

Now his average is .57 attempts per game even with DLo shooting 10.7% better from the corner than overall.

Even without playmakers, teams can run sets to free up space for these shots. But only if the shooter has the speed and agility to run around a series of downscreens, stop on a dime, turn, and shoot.

Don't get me wrong, he will still be a perennial all star if he keeps up his post ASB play. I will no longer use the word replacement when bringing up DLo.

We're not discussing "impressive." You've made the assertion that DLo is not physically capable of "running around a series of downscreens, stop[ping] on a dime, turn[ing], and shoot[ing]." I'll try to track down anecdotal video evidence to the contrary tomorrow, but regardless there are two things that are true that you are not addressing: 1) DLo attempted around .140 of his 3s from the corners in his first two seasons a Laker (hitting a respectable 41%), which then decreased when he moved to the Nets, and 2) Steph Curry's career corner 3PA rate is .144 and he even attempted more of his 3s from the corners during his first four years than later in his career.

So what changed for Russell to cause a decrease in his ratio of 3PAs as a Laker to that as a Brooklyn Net? What changed? He's surrounded by better ball-handlers and passers in Brooklyn with a more analytics friendly offense, so why is he attempting fewer corner 3s as a proportion of his overall 3PAs? Why did he go from attempting corner 3s at a rate comparable to Steph Curry to one more comparable to that of Damian Lillard? What changed?

A more compelling argument would involve more granular data that we may not have public access to - how many corner 3PAs are coming in transition versus half court; what is the average distance of defenders on different players' corner 3PAs, etc. But in the absence of said data, the only thing different I can see between DLo attempting a Steph Curry-esque ratio of corner 3s to a Damian Lillard-esque ratio is scheme and his role within that scheme.

Lastly: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fm2W0sq9ddU


In short, if DLo was good at running around screens and getting to the corner for an open look, his coach would find a way to get him the ball more often in those situations. Curry would have a much higher attempt rate, but opposing coaches plan around stopping his corner 3, as Curry is a career 50% shooter from there. As a result of Curry's movement and teams scrambling to rotate, mismatches are created and lanes open up.

In year one, 1 of DLo's every 7 attempts came from the corner. He only took 4.6 overall per game because of Byron handcuffing him, but at any rate, 0.66 attempts per game from the corner is roughly the same as what he's done in Brooklyn.

His second year, Luke had him on and off the ball at different times (to very little success with the latter), leading to 0.81 attempts from the corner per night.

Not surprising his corner attempts are slightly down in Brooklyn, where he was named the PG on day one. Playing off the ball more his 2nd year may have yielded an extra corner attempt every four games, essentially the difference between that and his third year.

I have no data on the following, but corner threes in transition are pretty rare. Most are probably off of (also rare) backcourt turnovers.

Your argument boils down to "if he was good at it, he would do it." Then you agree that scheme difference played a part in affecting his corner 3PA.

Got it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Your argument boils down to "if he was good at it, he would do it." Then you agree that scheme difference played a part in affecting his corner 3PA.

Got it.


Are you saying DLo could get good looks(or be able to attack closeouts if the play works) from the corner in halfcourt offense if Atkinson just simply called the plays for them?

Excuse the obvious, but the offensive/defensive coaching schemes are always designed around getting/stopping stars from getting to their most efficient spots as is possible. If Atkinson could, I'm sure he'd love to get DLo in the corner more with his 46.8% shooting. But just standing in the corner won't get a player many attempts against defenders who are awake (unless the defense doesn't fear the shooter).

Trying to use Russell the way Steph plays off ball would take away from his on ball abilities. DLo just won't get the same looks regularly Steph does off the same picks/downscreens, even with the same teammates. Even when Steph is run off the three point line, the action is good for the possession because the defense is likely in scramble mode, leading to other reads.

Russell would still be a net positive as the second best player next to certain stars, such as Durant or Kawhi. LeBron would be an adjustment. Could D'Angelo be efficient playing off the ball next to two other stars? Maybe. But my point is, his volume would go down next to them, and his value-per-dollar would too. But we'd feel compelled to match any offer as our cap would be maxed out, and losing him for nothing would hurt, as was the case with Otto Porter, Jr.

It's risky to pay $25+ million for a 3-and-no-D guy to be your #3 option the way the Wizards did with Porter. Porter did much better in Chicago and was very efficient with a higher volume after being traded, even when the Bulls had Lavine going off.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject:

foshowtime wrote:


Ive watched alot of Nets games this season, and Dinwiddie isnt as good a passer as Zo. Also, they dont necessarily pay that many minutes together.
I have seen DLO make really good cuts and not get the ball plenty.

So your argument is that if Zo/DLo were together that would somehow take away from BI and Zo?


(Assuming BI wasn't traded in this scenario, and we went with the yutes, of course)

Offensively, it would probably hurt DLo more, as neither Zo or BI are threats to catch and shoot the way Joe Harris or even DeMarre Carroll are.

Even if DLo executes the cut and had Steve Nash passing him the ball, I don't see his cuts getting him open looks, or in a position where he can do damage. He's just more dangerous with the ball, that's probably why Dinwiddie's minutes are staggered with his (11 per game together).
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:12 pm    Post subject:

according to the nba dot com computer machine

dlo - 52 corner 3s attempted this season

joe harris - 62 corner 3s attempted this season

do with that information what you will folks
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject:

It looks like the corner 3 just isn't a big part of their offense
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject:

Levert is returning to his form and is getting better. Excellent first NBA playoff game by Levert.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject:

ryan_c wrote:
Levert is returning to his form and is getting better. Excellent first NBA playoff game by Levert.


mans been HOOPIN
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:08 am    Post subject:

Joe Harris shoots 5% better on corner 3s, (51.7% vs 46.6% otherwise) but he is the type of player whose talents aren't being wasted if he spends every other possession spotting up. 334 of Joe's 374 buckets this season were assisted. He shoots over 48% on catch and shoot threes.

Russell is shooting 39% on catch and shoot threes (1.3 makes per game), but he's not worth $25+ million to a team, unless his assist & usage rate can be around 30% (Not happening if he were with two other stars, lest Klay headed South). Byron and the FO limited his on ball prowess, leading to fewer shots off the dribble in general, as well as his threes off a ballscreen.

Makes sense his corner 3PAr was higher in the "Bonsai Russell" years in LA.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:00 am    Post subject:

anpherknee wrote:
according to the nba dot com computer machine

dlo - 52 corner 3s attempted this season

joe harris - 62 corner 3s attempted this season

do with that information what you will folks

Clearly Joe Harris isn't athletic enough to get more of those corner 3s.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
This is only his 4th season and he took huge strides this season. He has another level left in him imo. I expect 25/8 type season from him in a year or two on Top 4 seed Nets.


He's right on that cusp. He's putting up these #'s with little to no free throws in some games. He's at 2.5 free throws which is anemic for the caliber of scorers he is. If he can bump that up to 5-6 (which is still on the low end), he's right there.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:01 pm    Post subject:

Tired of the no defense argument. Isn't true.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:24 pm    Post subject:

Oooooh weeeee
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:43 pm    Post subject:

ryan_c wrote:
Levert is returning to his form and is getting better. Excellent first NBA playoff game by Levert.


Big improvement from him, but going back dribble exhibition too much again this game.
Needs to go back to how he played in Game 1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject:

Philly getting calls like crazy lol
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject:

Embiid does too much... He is always trying to hack and push people
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject:

Damn Magic why’d you have to dump this kid?
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