Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8330 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron's not even what Kobe Bryant was as a player.
MJST wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
.
Interestingly enough there was a reddit post that broke down Kobe's clutch stats in the Finals vs LeBron's (could have been playoffs too but I think it was the finals)
And what it showed was that Kobe was overwhelmingly better in that category.
So in terms of clutch stats during the season LeBron seemed to have an edge, but in the Finals/playoffs in terms of clutch it seemed Kobe had the edge, and I guess that's the kind of thing that comes into why LeBron's Finals record is what it is. And why those moments like "passing the ball when Steph is guarding you" in the final moments comes into fruition.
Now if you compare LeBron's numbers in the clutch vs KDs in the Finals, I'm going to guess that he'd be pretty far ahead as well.
All and all however, when the "clutch stats" of the playoffs(or just the finals) came up, Kobe pulled ahead of LeBron, and that's likely one of the reasons Kobe is 5-2 in the Finals and LeBron is 3-6(1-4 in his last 5).
Also when it comes to Kobe's post seasons, as I remember it, it was a part of Phil's scheme he had Kobe take a backseat in the Finals to Shaq primarily to take advantage of the matchups against the Eastern Centers, and that was where Kobe sacrificed most of his stats. Phil went to Kobe to get through the West, and then the ball shifted primarily to Shaq to get through the East and their inferior centers. But that could be just how I remember it, I'd need to go into the stats to find out.
But when it comes to the all-time numbers, you have to answer the question of if your numbers matter if your team ultimately loses.
Because if were to put Wilt's post-season stats against LeBron's there is absolutely no way LeBron's numbers compare. But he lost to Bill Russell in the Finals in a lot of those and out of them all only has 2 Championships.
If that kind of stuff doesn't matter when it comes to stats, than Wilt would finish ahead of LeBron I'd assume.
That's why it's not an exact science.
For the same reasons if you threw in Jordan's best Playoff appearances, it would surpass what James was putting up too, but it'd be very impressive considering Jordan was playing the 2, just how many rebounds and assists he was getting and how better he was on defense.
But again, if you put Wilt's up against Jordan's, he'd trump his too. So it's not an exact science.
End of the day however, I'll need to find that thread so that I can post Kobe vs LeBron post-season clutch stats, it was either post-season or Finals, but he did pull ahead of LeBron there.
=====================
But to me, the biggest argument against Kobe vs LeBron, or Jordan vs LeBron, or Kareem vs LeBron, or even Magic or Duncan vs LeBron when it comes to your greatness or how it's perceived. LeBron needs asterisk's next to every Finals loss he has in order to legitimize his legacy in that regard.
Kareem, Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Duncan, Bird do not. And to me, that's the biggest knock.
Even the Finals where KD and the Warriors beat him 4-1, and instead of giving KD credit the media made it out to be an insurmountable mountain. If this was just the media it wouldn't matter, but LBJ feeds into the same rhetoric to protect himself. And the 'cast' at the end of the Finals last year in his attempt to take credit from being beat 4-0 was cringeworthy.
But back to when they got beat 4-1. The way they say it you'd imagine that the Warriors were just all putting up 30 and LeBron was all by himself. In reality it looked like this
KD: 35.2 / 8.2 / 5.4 1.6 BLK 1.0 STL 55.6% FG 47.4% Three 92.7% FT
LeBron: 33.6 / 12 / 10 1.0 BLK 1.4 STL 56.4% FG 38.7 Three 64.9% FT
Kyrie: 29.4 / 4.0 / 4.4 1.0 STL 47.2% FG 41.9% Three 90% FT
Steph: 26.8 / 8.0 / 9.4 2.2 STL 44% FG 38.8% Three 89.7 FT
Love: 16.0 / 11.2 /1.0 1.0 BLK 2.2 STL 38.8% FG 38.7% Three 80.0% FT
Klay: 16.4 / 4.8 / 2.2 0.2 BLK 0.4 STL 42.9 FG 42.5% Three 71.4% FT
Imagine putting up 29.4 / 4.0 / 4.4 1.0 STL 47.2% FG 41.9% Three 90% FT, and getting portrayed like you didn't do squat.. or was the problem. Now you know why Kyrie wanted out of that environment.
But again, when you map out the stats like that, it doesn't seem as insurmountable, it's just another team that coulc match how stacked LeBron's teams usually were beat his team. That's all. When you lay out the stats like that it becomes very apparent how much help LeBron [b]actually did have. But in order to legitimize his legacy they need to pretend that didn't happen, need to pretend that LBJ was just with a bunch of scrubs, and take complete credit away from what KD and the Warriors did.
When the Lakers got swept by the Bad Boy Pistons, I didn't hear anyone saying the Pistons didn't deserve it because Magic, Byron etc were injured before the series even started. They were undefeated before that series, the injuries were obviously a factor! Detroit's Ring doesn't count.
When the Bulls beat the Lakers in 91 I didn't hear anyone going, yeah but the Lakers were playing through injury so that doesn't count.
When The Lakers lost in 04 I didn't hear "yeah but Karl Malone had been hurt and wasn't 100% so it doesn't count."
When the Celtics beat the Lakers in 07 I didn't hear "Yeah but Kobe didn't have Bynum or Ariza. So this doesn't count."
Know why? Because they didn't need asterisks or "yeah but..." when they lost in the Finals to protect their legacy. LeBron on the other hand..always does. And THAT is the tipping point for me when I compare him. [/b]
TL;DR: Just skip if you're this.
This is the thing that really bothers me about how Lebron is covered by the media. When his team doesn't win the championship, there's always an excuse, and therefore it somehow doesn't affect his legacy. The only exception was the 2011 finals, but that was the most blatant no-show/choke job by a superstar in NBA history, and it was so bad no one could ignore it.
Lebronsexuals always say "other than the 2011 finals he has never underperformed on the big stage". They conveniently ignore the fact that he shot 40% in the 2015 finals. Instead of acknowledging that, they think his individual performance in the 2015 finals was the greatest ever.
In 2017 the Cavs may have been underdogs, but they were only mild underdogs and they had a superteam of their own. It's not a stretch at all to say that they could've won that series if they had made a couple of strategic adjustments in Game 2 and outworked and outsmarted the Warriors. At the very least that series would've been tied 2-2.
The media has also said that the Cavs were underdogs almost every year they went to the finals, which is misleading. Most of the time they were only slight underdogs. The 2014 finals were rated just about dead even, but because experts had to pick one team they picked the Spurs. It was probably 11 out of 20 or something like that who picked the Spurs.
Since many people in our society are ignorant and conformist, they just fall for all this without ever questioning it, and they just parrot what the media says to defend Lebron instead of coming up with their own arguments through critical thinking. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron's not even what Kobe Bryant was as a player.
slavavov wrote:
This is the thing that really bothers me about how Lebron is covered by the media. When his team doesn't win the championship, there's always an excuse, and therefore it somehow doesn't affect his legacy. The only exception was the 2011 finals, but that was the most blatant no-show/choke job by a superstar in NBA history, and it was so bad no one could ignore it.
Lebronsexuals always say "other than the 2011 finals he has never underperformed on the big stage". They conveniently ignore the fact that he shot 40% in the 2015 finals. Instead of acknowledging that, they think his individual performance in the 2015 finals was the greatest ever.
In 2017 the Cavs may have been underdogs, but they were only mild underdogs and they had a superteam of their own. It's not a stretch at all to say that they could've won that series if they had made a couple of strategic adjustments in Game 2 and outworked and outsmarted the Warriors. At the very least that series would've been tied 2-2.
The media has also said that the Cavs were underdogs almost every year they went to the finals, which is misleading. Most of the time they were only slight underdogs. The 2014 finals were rated just about dead even, but because experts had to pick one team they picked the Spurs. It was probably 11 out of 20 or something like that who picked the Spurs.
Since many people in our society are ignorant and conformist, they just fall for all this without ever questioning it, and they just parrot what the media says to defend Lebron instead of coming up with their own arguments through critical thinking.
hell yea. It's very frustrating, and all the more so now that he is a laker. people think when we say this we are hating, but why? we want lakers to win....this is all concern that he is not as good as advertised. i wish he was! i really do.
he gets a pass like i've never seen in the NBA for a superstar. When he was losing to the warriors, the media was talking so much about how he deserved losing MVP. It's like he's just out to grab as many accolades and awards as possible, forget the winning. He came in as the next Magic. Then people quickly realized he doesn't pass like Magic, so it became the next Jordan or whatever. Now it's not the next Jordan, it's even more...the greatest ever! WHy does he need so many good players to win? WHy is his ft like the worst of all the greats? WHy is his bball iq so high? He seems to fumble and brick in crunch time a lot. We only see the highlights, but he screws up those last few minutes so much...like way more than we are used to seeing with others like Kobe, MJ, even guys like Paul George. Does anybody keep their eye on him the entire posession? DO you see how uninvolved he is after basically the first pass or drive that he makes as the guy bringing the ball up?
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22841 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:32 pm Post subject:
I'm back.. I just wanna say something, a little bit of a tangent. The 92 finals was funny to me. How they all tried to hype it up MJ vs Drexler. When at the time, you wouldn't even trade Pippen straight up for Drexler. MJ's closest competition was on his own team, Scottie Pippen was da man!
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron's not even what Kobe Bryant was as a player.
LAL1947 wrote:
MJST wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmjY6vaYovc
He's not wrong.
AFAIC, Lebron just doesn't have the same natural skills/talent that MJ and Kobe did. If he had the same level of skills, then he'd automatically have developed the mentality of being "more of a killer" or an "assassin" over time. But Lebron doesn't and he knows it too, which is why he chooses to be more of a facilitator instead of a natural scorer. It's like when you have two top players on the same team... both have the same mentality while one has better natural skills/talent than the other... then that person will become the go-to guy for the clutch shots and his team mate will automatically defer to him too.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!. he looks fantastic with d wade, kyrie irving.....but on the floor by himselft....not so great. Look lebron is a great player but he is not on the same island as jordan, kobe , kareem and magic.....he on the second island with dwade and others.....im so glad someone finally said it and stop this goat talk. Lebron was in the east.....had he been in the west all these years.....He would not get all the hype he gets. There was no competition in the east. Had he stayed this year.....Different story.
Last edited by clutchkobe on Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
this is not only not true, but pretty condescending. Pippen played in the nba and just by observation would know a lot more than 99% of the people you are assuming knows everything. Not to mention he played with MJ and won a bunch of rings as a close to most important player. Yea, he has nothing of significance to say.
Joined: 16 Feb 2016 Posts: 1710 Location: Western PA
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:26 pm Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
this is not only not true, but pretty condescending. Pippen played in the nba and just by observation would know a lot more than 99% of the people you are assuming knows everything. Not to mention he played with MJ and won a bunch of rings as a close to most important player. Yea, he has nothing of significance to say.
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
this is not only not true, but pretty condescending. Pippen played in the nba and just by observation would know a lot more than 99% of the people you are assuming knows everything. Not to mention he played with MJ and won a bunch of rings as a close to most important player. Yea, he has nothing of significance to say.
Joined: 16 Feb 2016 Posts: 1710 Location: Western PA
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:27 pm Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
this is not only not true, but pretty condescending. Pippen played in the nba and just by observation would know a lot more than 99% of the people you are assuming knows everything. Not to mention he played with MJ and won a bunch of rings as a close to most important player. Yea, he has nothing of significance to say.
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
this is not only not true, but pretty condescending. Pippen played in the nba and just by observation would know a lot more than 99% of the people you are assuming knows everything. Not to mention he played with MJ and won a bunch of rings as a close to most important player. Yea, he has nothing of significance to say.
Joined: 16 Feb 2016 Posts: 1710 Location: Western PA
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:09 pm Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
this is not only not true, but pretty condescending. Pippen played in the nba and just by observation would know a lot more than 99% of the people you are assuming knows everything. Not to mention he played with MJ and won a bunch of rings as a close to most important player. Yea, he has nothing of significance to say.
I think this pretty much sums up the validity of Scotty Pippen's opinions. Cheers.
lol. context. you should consider the bulk of what he says, not just clips. oh no, he changes his mind and says conflicting things!
I…I honestly don't know what to say to this…
lol they're not politicians. who cares if they change their minds or say stupid stuff? or how many kids he has? lol.
You defend his words as having significance, then you say "who cares if they change their minds or say stupid stuff'. How am I supposed to know what is significant and what is "stupid stuff"? And if I can't tell the difference then what good does it do me to pay attention to him?
Do you see what I'm saying? I ask because I think we might be missing each other's point here.
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
this is not only not true, but pretty condescending. Pippen played in the nba and just by observation would know a lot more than 99% of the people you are assuming knows everything. Not to mention he played with MJ and won a bunch of rings as a close to most important player. Yea, he has nothing of significance to say.
I think this pretty much sums up the validity of Scotty Pippen's opinions. Cheers.
lol. context. you should consider the bulk of what he says, not just clips. oh no, he changes his mind and says conflicting things!
I…I honestly don't know what to say to this…
lol they're not politicians. who cares if they change their minds or say stupid stuff? or how many kids he has? lol.
You defend his words as having significance, then you say "who cares if they change their minds or say stupid stuff'. How am I supposed to know what is significant and what is "stupid stuff"? And if I can't tell the difference then what good does it do me to pay attention to him?
Do you see what I'm saying? I ask because I think we might be missing each other's point here.
these guys are not politicians, youre treating them like politicians with your expectations. You just listen to them over time, that's all. like anyone else. yea, he says some words, but what is the context? how does it compare to other things he says?
how are you supposed to know? youll know if you really want. there's lots of video etc to get a full picture. takes time. but most will just look at the highlights and sound bites right.
I'm back.. I just wanna say something, a little bit of a tangent. The 92 finals was funny to me. How they all tried to hype it up MJ vs Drexler. When at the time, you wouldn't even trade Pippen straight up for Drexler. MJ's closest competition was on his own team, Scottie Pippen was da man!
I thought Clyde was actually a better player with Olajuwon than he was in Portland. He made a lot of impact on those Rockets runs. He looked hardened or something I can't put my finger on. He was definitely a great #2 and an excellent #1, but one team's #1 may be better than yours. In 92 that was definitely the case. Clyde was still pretty good by the time Kobe(!) was guarding him, too.
Btw, re: Scott Pippen, this guy's vids are great. This guy is good at what he does. He's a Pippen superfan, it appears, but this is a great vid of Scott if anyone wants to peep.
I'm back.. I just wanna say something, a little bit of a tangent. The 92 finals was funny to me. How they all tried to hype it up MJ vs Drexler. When at the time, you wouldn't even trade Pippen straight up for Drexler. MJ's closest competition was on his own team, Scottie Pippen was da man!
I thought Clyde was actually a better player with Olajuwon than he was in Portland. He made a lot of impact on those Rockets runs. He looked hardened or something I can't put my finger on. He was definitely a great #2 and an excellent #1, but one team's #1 may be better than yours. In 92 that was definitely the case. Clyde was still pretty good by the time Kobe(!) was guarding him, too.
Btw, re: Scott Pippen, this guy's vids are great. This guy is good at what he does. He's a Pippen superfan, it appears, but this is a great vid of Scott if anyone wants to peep.
People make fun of Drexler almost entirely because of his bald old man mustache look. And Jordan was just so handsome. But the way he played was damn good. People just can't get over that face.
I'm back.. I just wanna say something, a little bit of a tangent. The 92 finals was funny to me. How they all tried to hype it up MJ vs Drexler. When at the time, you wouldn't even trade Pippen straight up for Drexler. MJ's closest competition was on his own team, Scottie Pippen was da man!
I thought Clyde was actually a better player with Olajuwon than he was in Portland. He made a lot of impact on those Rockets runs. He looked hardened or something I can't put my finger on. He was definitely a great #2 and an excellent #1, but one team's #1 may be better than yours. In 92 that was definitely the case. Clyde was still pretty good by the time Kobe(!) was guarding him, too.
Btw, re: Scott Pippen, this guy's vids are great. This guy is good at what he does. He's a Pippen superfan, it appears, but this is a great vid of Scott if anyone wants to peep.
People make fun of Drexler almost entirely because of his bald old man mustache look. And Jordan was just so handsome. But the way he played was damn good. People just can't get over that face.
Mike was given to us by God himself. Mike was interesting to watch WALKING, much less playing. He had style for days. He was the most famous player of all time, it felt like a privilege to see him play against your team. No bs, either. His effin gravitas was off the charts. I know he was an ahole, but that was part of his image. He wanted to be seen as a ruthless killer of mortal hoops players. Once saw Stacey King carrying a wrapped present under his arm in the locker room and shouted, "I hope there's a jumper in that box!" That's my fave Mike quip. Calling Jerry Krause "Krumbs" because he always had food stuck to his lapels was another. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
Pippen is running his mouth a lot. If MJ hadn't played in Chicago, most people would be .... "Scottie ... who?"
Do you realize that Pippen was an MVP candidate when Jordan left to play baseball? Scottie is also considered one of the goat wing defenders if not the goat wing defender, so to say no one would know pippen is a pretty dumb statement
Scottie was a great player. But like a lot of great players, he really has nothing to say about the game that is anymore insightful than you could get from a randomly chosen LG post. As others have said, his opinions about MJ/Lebron/Kobe shift with the wind. He's just another Hall of Famer who becomes a boring blowhard when a microphone gets pushed in his face.
this is not only not true, but pretty condescending. Pippen played in the nba and just by observation would know a lot more than 99% of the people you are assuming knows everything. Not to mention he played with MJ and won a bunch of rings as a close to most important player. Yea, he has nothing of significance to say.
I've read some interviews with Scottie; overall, I can't say I've been particularly impressed with his comments, insights or analysis. But that's true of lots of players -- the ability to play the game doesn't necessary make someone skilled at analyzing or commenting on the game.
Maybe you are a super-duper fan of him as a basketball analyst. That's cool. I don't find what he says interesting enough to spend anymore time listening to him.
these guys are not politicians, youre treating them like politicians with your expectations. You just listen to them over time, that's all. like anyone else. yea, he says some words, but what is the context? how does it compare to other things he says?
how are you supposed to know? youll know if you really want. there's lots of video etc to get a full picture. takes time. but most will just look at the highlights and sound bites right.
When I listen to an analyst -- be it about sports, politics, literature, whatever -- I can tell pretty quickly if they are worth the time to listen to. If I have to constantly sort out good stuff from stupid stuff, I'm not going to bother with them.
Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:29 am Post subject: Re: Scottie Pippen: LeBron's not even what Kobe Bryant was as a player.
clutchkobe wrote:
LAL1947 wrote:
MJST wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmjY6vaYovc
He's not wrong.
AFAIC, Lebron just doesn't have the same natural skills/talent that MJ and Kobe did. If he had the same level of skills, then he'd automatically have developed the mentality of being "more of a killer" or an "assassin" over time. But Lebron doesn't and he knows it too, which is why he chooses to be more of a facilitator instead of a natural scorer. It's like when you have two top players on the same team... both have the same mentality while one has better natural skills/talent than the other... then that person will become the go-to guy for the clutch shots and his team mate will automatically defer to him too.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!. he looks fantastic with d wade, kyrie irving.....but on the floor by himselft....not so great. Look lebron is a great player but he is not on the same island as jordan, kobe , kareem and magic.....he on the second island with dwade and others.....im so glad someone finally said it and stop this goat talk. Lebron was in the east.....had he been in the west all these years.....He would not get all the hype he gets. There was no competition in the east. Had he stayed this year.....Different story.
Well, that's not exactly what I was trying saying to say. You and I are seeing eye to eye that he isn't MJ/Kobe when it comes to being skilled... and there are too many people not giving MJ/Kobe's abilities their due credit or who are not being accurate in how they describe the difference.
Where we differ is... I think Lebron has a clutch gene... it's just not the same as an MJ/Kobe because his skills are not on their level, so he decides to facilitate more than being the closer or the go-to scorer. Also, I'm not going to downplay his other characteristics (such as size, athleticism, speed, IQ and passing and he has good skills too, just not MJ/Kobe skills). The guy hasn't been hyped just because he was in the East. He came into the league as an 19 year old in a grown superman's body... and has been taking it to the whole league since day one. He was going up against some great teams in the East pretty much by himself, like the Pistons and Celtics, and they needed all of their good-to-great players and/or to play rough to beat him when he was still technically a kid. He also didn't have any championship winning mentors in his early years until he teamed up with D Wade in Miami. IMO, he's surpassed both Magic and Bird as a player already... but seeing as I'm a fan of the elite shooting guard types, I can't put him over MJ/Kobe... and because of all their individual records, I can't put him over Wilt/Kareem too. The way I see it... MJ, Wilt, Kobe, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Russell, Duncan, Shaq.
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