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GOODRICH25
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 Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo + Ingram + 3 of Kuzma, Hart, Wagner, Bonga, 2019 1st round pick works i think if we only need $21,594,416 in outgoing salary
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Bard207
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jankobe wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | jankobe wrote: | Any body can enlighten us with the proper scenario how the Lakers can sign a 2nd Star & be able to still Trade for AD in the summer?
If im not mistaken, only Lebron, Lonzo, BI, Kuzma, Hart, Wagner, Bongga will be under contract.
Will a combination of Lonzo, BI, Kuz, Wagner, Hart is enough to match AD's salary? |
The first post covers the numbers and has been up since late December.
FFICIAL 2018-2019 FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD (Available 2019 FAs, LAL Cap Space & KD, KL & AD Scenarios, p.1)
I have posted the equation before, but will post it again.
86. How do simultaneous trades work? How much salary can a team take back in a simultaneous trade?
| Quote: |
A simultaneous trade takes place all at once. The amount of salary a team can take back in a simultaneous trade depends on the amount of outgoing salary1 and whether the team is a taxpayer.2 They always use the post-trade team salary when looking at whether a team is a taxpayer, so a team under the tax level would be considered a taxpayer if the trade takes them over the tax level.3,4
For non-taxpaying teams (again, they must be under the tax level after the trade), the salaries that can be acquired depend on the total salaries the team is trading away:
Non-Taxpaying
Teams Outgoing salary.........Maximum incoming salary
$0 to $6,533,333..................175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,0005
$6,533,334 to $19.6 million...The outgoing salary plus $5 million5
$19.6 million and up..............125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
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Davis has a salary of $27,093,019 next season.
Work backwards from the 125% path/method
$27,093,019.00 - $100,000 = $26,993,019
$26,993,019 / 1.25 = $21,594,415.20
Work the numbers forward to prove
$21,594,415.20 * 1.25 = $26,993,019
$26,993,019 + $100,000 = $27,093,019
Maybe a LA free agent such as Bullock can be included in a sign and trade to reach the goal of $21,594,416 of outgoing salary. |
Thank you Brad. Very informative. So meaning, to be able to sign 1 Max FA is to waive all expiree, then Trade almost all the players not named Lebron for AD (includes S&T Bullock?) |
From the first page of this thread:
Cap Space Math After Signing < 10 Year Free Agent Summer 2019
To sign a max free agent with under 10 years experience next summer (i.e. Klay, Butler, Kemba, Cousins, Kyrie or Kawhi), we'll need to rescind all of our rights/cap holds for our FAs. Here is the math -
$37,430,000......LeBron James (1)
$32,700,000......Kawhi Leonard (2)
$8,719,320........Lonzo Ball (3)
$7,265,485........Brandon Ingram (4)
$2,164,680........Moritz Wagner (5)
$1,974,600........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$1,934,160........Josh Hart (7)
$1,885,329........#25 2019 1st Round Pick (8)
$1,416,852........Isaac Bonga (9)*
$897,158...........Min Salary (10)
$897,158...........Min Salary (11)
$897,158...........Min Salary (12)
$4,992,994........Luol Deng (1 year $14,977,482 Stretched over 3 Years)
____________
$103,174,894
$109,000,000 (Cap) - $103,174,894 (Salaries) =$5,825,106 cap space left**
The salary for the 2019 first will be higher than shown because the pick will be better than #25. If they need outgoing salary, the player selected with the 2019 first can be signed to a contract and then be included in a trade after a hold of 30 days. The Wiggins - Love trade is an example of that usage.
$8,719,320........Lonzo Ball (3)
$7,265,485........Brandon Ingram (4)
$2,164,680........Moritz Wagner (5)
$1,974,600........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$1,934,160........Josh Hart (7)
$1,885,329........#25 2019 1st Round Pick (8)
$1,416,852........Isaac Bonga (9)*
They need to come up with $21,594,416 of outgoing salary from the list above and maybe Bullock.
Bullock will have a cap hold of $4,750,000. If the cap hold (salary) for the 2019 first is on the high side, then they might need to make another roster move to have the cap space for the 30% max or even have to renounce Bullock.
If they go with Durant (35%), then Bullock will need to be renounced and possibly make another roster move depending on the cap hold (salary) for the 2019 first. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dabask11 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | The bar is Paul George. If we sign someone better than him like Durant or Kawhi. Everything up to that point was worth it.
I don't think DLO would've made the all star team this year if he stayed. I'm more happy for him then sad for us. He's in a great situation with a franchise fully invested in his future. Don't think that would've happened here.
Also I think being traded away motivated him in a way that would be tough to duplicate if he stayed here. |
crappy for us then if this is the case. |
Not necessarily. We can be known as the franchise who doesn't screw over their players (like BOS for example) if we trade you. That reputation matters.
That's the most a FO can really promise most players. Most players don't have no-trade clauses in their contract. So knowing, worst case scenario, I'll be traded to a roster that needs me and there's room for growth. That's the best deal you're gonna get. |
That's assuming the franchise takes the necessary actions to maintain such a reputation.
Look at how Magic was able to destroy it in the last few weeks. He's handled everything so poorly we're now seen as a dysfunctional franchise with a toxic locker room and an idiotic FO that sees its players as disposable to obtain results.
Can't be seen as an organization that doesn't screw over their players in trades when they just tried to screw them a few days ago. The fact DLO was able to take a shot at our organization's reputation says a lot of about how we're now looked at around the league. |
And to bad mouth the player after a trade isn’t very classy.
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scoobs
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Someone asked on a different thread if it is possible for us to get AD and sign a max free agent. It is explained in this thread, so I figured I would bump it if people are interested. |
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scoobs
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually, an AD trade would have to be adjusted a little now that the deadline has past. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | Someone asked on a different thread if it is possible for us to get AD and sign a max free agent. It is explained in this thread, so I figured I would bump it if people are interested. |
The original trade can’t work in the offseason, it would have before the deadline. We can’t trade KCP and we traded Zu.
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jankobe
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | jankobe wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | jankobe wrote: | Any body can enlighten us with the proper scenario how the Lakers can sign a 2nd Star & be able to still Trade for AD in the summer?
If im not mistaken, only Lebron, Lonzo, BI, Kuzma, Hart, Wagner, Bongga will be under contract.
Will a combination of Lonzo, BI, Kuz, Wagner, Hart is enough to match AD's salary? |
The first post covers the numbers and has been up since late December.
FFICIAL 2018-2019 FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD (Available 2019 FAs, LAL Cap Space & KD, KL & AD Scenarios, p.1)
I have posted the equation before, but will post it again.
86. How do simultaneous trades work? How much salary can a team take back in a simultaneous trade?
| Quote: |
A simultaneous trade takes place all at once. The amount of salary a team can take back in a simultaneous trade depends on the amount of outgoing salary1 and whether the team is a taxpayer.2 They always use the post-trade team salary when looking at whether a team is a taxpayer, so a team under the tax level would be considered a taxpayer if the trade takes them over the tax level.3,4
For non-taxpaying teams (again, they must be under the tax level after the trade), the salaries that can be acquired depend on the total salaries the team is trading away:
Non-Taxpaying
Teams Outgoing salary.........Maximum incoming salary
$0 to $6,533,333..................175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,0005
$6,533,334 to $19.6 million...The outgoing salary plus $5 million5
$19.6 million and up..............125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
|
Davis has a salary of $27,093,019 next season.
Work backwards from the 125% path/method
$27,093,019.00 - $100,000 = $26,993,019
$26,993,019 / 1.25 = $21,594,415.20
Work the numbers forward to prove
$21,594,415.20 * 1.25 = $26,993,019
$26,993,019 + $100,000 = $27,093,019
Maybe a LA free agent such as Bullock can be included in a sign and trade to reach the goal of $21,594,416 of outgoing salary. |
Thank you Brad. Very informative. So meaning, to be able to sign 1 Max FA is to waive all expiree, then Trade almost all the players not named Lebron for AD (includes S&T Bullock?) |
From the first page of this thread:
Cap Space Math After Signing < 10 Year Free Agent Summer 2019
To sign a max free agent with under 10 years experience next summer (i.e. Klay, Butler, Kemba, Cousins, Kyrie or Kawhi), we'll need to rescind all of our rights/cap holds for our FAs. Here is the math -
$37,430,000......LeBron James (1)
$32,700,000......Kawhi Leonard (2)
$8,719,320........Lonzo Ball (3)
$7,265,485........Brandon Ingram (4)
$2,164,680........Moritz Wagner (5)
$1,974,600........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$1,934,160........Josh Hart (7)
$1,885,329........#25 2019 1st Round Pick (8)
$1,416,852........Isaac Bonga (9)*
$897,158...........Min Salary (10)
$897,158...........Min Salary (11)
$897,158...........Min Salary (12)
$4,992,994........Luol Deng (1 year $14,977,482 Stretched over 3 Years)
____________
$103,174,894
$109,000,000 (Cap) - $103,174,894 (Salaries) =$5,825,106 cap space left**
The salary for the 2019 first will be higher than shown because the pick will be better than #25. If they need outgoing salary, the player selected with the 2019 first can be signed to a contract and then be included in a trade after a hold of 30 days. The Wiggins - Love trade is an example of that usage.
$8,719,320........Lonzo Ball (3)
$7,265,485........Brandon Ingram (4)
$2,164,680........Moritz Wagner (5)
$1,974,600........Kyle Kuzma (6)
$1,934,160........Josh Hart (7)
$1,885,329........#25 2019 1st Round Pick (8)
$1,416,852........Isaac Bonga (9)*
They need to come up with $21,594,416 of outgoing salary from the list above and maybe Bullock.
Bullock will have a cap hold of $4,750,000. If the cap hold (salary) for the 2019 first is on the high side, then they might need to make another roster move to have the cap space for the 30% max or even have to renounce Bullock.
If they go with Durant (35%), then Bullock will need to be renounced and possibly make another roster move depending on the cap hold (salary) for the 2019 first. |
So both the KD Max or Max of Kawhi/Kyrie/Klay level are attainable with AD Trade but we will be left with Min Salaries to fill roster. |
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2019
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Posts: 10811
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Jocker wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | I'm willing to wait on some of them...it took DLO 4 years to blossom. Let's wait and see what happens this summer and this cast judgement. |
If Magic lands someone like Kemba Walker, we just wasted a couple years. We would have dumped Russell (an all-star now), Randle, Nance, and Clarkson for Kemba Walker (or Klay Thompson, or whoever).. |
I think this is the correct way too look at it...
Too early to judge yet but what you just said are the parameters and the barometer for if Magic made the right moves.
I think Kawhi is somewhat in play. I think Kyrie is very much in play. Klay depends on if GS maxes him. KD seems like a no-go. Anyone else, is a failure. You could argue Klay and Kyrie would be but I won't. |
Not to butt in...but... I don’t think it’s a failure at at all if the Lakers gave up DLO, Randle, Nance, Clarkson and Zu all of whom are not difference makers as “net loss” and yielded say Klay/Kyree/Kemba + Lebron and the kids who have movable contracts for a third star or even hang on to them as “net gain”. At the very least, Lakers are in a much better financial situation than they were with Mitch and Jim and that is a very good thing..... |
You're not butting in mang...
Kyrie and Klay I agree would be worth all that we've lost. Some argue different but I would not.
But to lose DLO, Randle, Nance, and Clarkson, collectively, to sign a 6'1 28 year old scoring pg (not even in top 5) or a half step version of Boogie is just not a good trade off. I agree none of those guys are good sidekicks on a championship team but neither is Kemba or Boogie or Middleton or Butler. |
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scoobs
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | scoobs wrote: | | Someone asked on a different thread if it is possible for us to get AD and sign a max free agent. It is explained in this thread, so I figured I would bump it if people are interested. |
The original trade can’t work in the offseason, it would have before the deadline. We can’t trade KCP and we traded Zu. |
Yup. We cant officially trade for AD until July 1st I believe. I forget, does the a 1st round draft pick's projected salary count in a trade? If so, we could trade Kuzma, Ball, BI, Wagner, Bonga and our 1st on draft day for AD. If not, we could still agree upon a trade that wont be official until July 1st, when the salaries are reset and when we get our cap space. |
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scoobs
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| It sounds like New Orleans wanted us to absorb Hill's salary though, so that would pretty much block us from being able to sign another max star. Maybe Cousins for about 20 million and resign Bullock? |
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lakerfanaticPT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Wont matter if Boston is on his list. Let them waste assets on him. He said he wants to be a FA after next season, whoever he is traded to, so the Lakers could outright sign him next summer with no assets leaving. Besides no other team seems to like our assets or think they are worth a damn. They only collect summer league MVP's and futues MVP, that's all lolol |
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scoobs
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Wont matter if Boston is on his list. Let them waste assets on him. He said he wants to be a FA after next season, whoever he is traded to, so the Lakers could outright sign him next summer with no assets leaving. Besides no other team seems to like our assets or think they are worth a damn. They only collect summer league MVP's and futues MVP, that's all lolol |
Yeah, im not very optimistic about the Lakers trading AD either, but you never know. The Boston thing could just be bs. Im sure the Lakers will look into it again. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | Laker_Jocker wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | I'm willing to wait on some of them...it took DLO 4 years to blossom. Let's wait and see what happens this summer and this cast judgement. |
If Magic lands someone like Kemba Walker, we just wasted a couple years. We would have dumped Russell (an all-star now), Randle, Nance, and Clarkson for Kemba Walker (or Klay Thompson, or whoever).. |
I think this is the correct way too look at it...
Too early to judge yet but what you just said are the parameters and the barometer for if Magic made the right moves.
I think Kawhi is somewhat in play. I think Kyrie is very much in play. Klay depends on if GS maxes him. KD seems like a no-go. Anyone else, is a failure. You could argue Klay and Kyrie would be but I won't. |
Not to butt in...but... I don’t think it’s a failure at at all if the Lakers gave up DLO, Randle, Nance, Clarkson and Zu all of whom are not difference makers as “net loss” and yielded say Klay/Kyree/Kemba + Lebron and the kids who have movable contracts for a third star or even hang on to them as “net gain”. At the very least, Lakers are in a much better financial situation than they were with Mitch and Jim and that is a very good thing..... |
You're not butting in mang...
Kyrie and Klay I agree would be worth all that we've lost. Some argue different but I would not.
But to lose DLO, Randle, Nance, and Clarkson, collectively, to sign a 6'1 28 year old scoring pg (not even in top 5) or a half step version of Boogie is just not a good trade off. I agree none of those guys are good sidekicks on a championship team but neither is Kemba or Boogie or Middleton or Butler. |
Kemba and Boogie isn't the greatest outcome... but it's still better than ending up with AD and LBJ and low quality ringchasers if you keep your picks and some of your core. |
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defense
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I dont really look at it as one individual for another. I look at it as does the move get us closer to being contenders. The main goal for me is to give us a shot at a championship while Legramps is here. I don't care about how each player lost is weighed against each player gained. |
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scoobs
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Ideally, the Lakers will sign a free agent first and then trade for AD, but they will probably be really aggressive about making a trade around draft day. Weather it be for AD or some other player or players. |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| If we don't land a true max player, the FO failed in their plan. Maybe you sign Vucevic and the young core improve enough to make us contenders but that is a long shot. |
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerfanaticPT wrote: | | Wont matter if Boston is on his list. Let them waste assets on him. He said he wants to be a FA after next season, whoever he is traded to, so the Lakers could outright sign him next summer with no assets leaving. Besides no other team seems to like our assets or think they are worth a damn. They only collect summer league MVP's and futues MVP, that's all lolol |
We're not punting another year. |
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rock0100
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps getting Muscala was more because his cap hold would still allow for a free agent to sign and then send him out on a 1 year sign and trade. |
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h2omike
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Since 21.5 million is the goal to get Davis, I think the offer ends up being like two of Ball/ Ingram/Kuzma, 1-2 draft picks, and a possible sign and trade of KCP, Bullock, Lance, something like that.
Teams I think will cool on Davis when he only agrees to play the one year rental, and will only sign the multiple year deal with the Lakers. Boston is not going to give Tatum and multiple first rounders for one year if Davis. |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| h2omike wrote: | Since 21.5 million is the goal to get Davis, I think the offer ends up being like two of Ball/ Ingram/Kuzma, 1-2 draft picks, and a possible sign and trade of KCP, Bullock, Lance, something like that.
Teams I think will cool on Davis when he only agrees to play the one year rental, and will only sign the multiple year deal with the Lakers. Boston is not going to give Tatum and multiple first rounders for one year if Davis. |
I'm sure there is a team out there that will take the Kawhi or PG risk and trade for him. I don't think it would be better than the Lakers' package but they won't trade him to the Lakers period. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | Ideally, the Lakers will sign a free agent first and then trade for AD, but they will probably be really aggressive about making a trade around draft day. Weather it be for AD or some other player or players. |
I think any trade made before free agency is likely a mistake....spend the cap space first. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10811
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | Laker_Jocker wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | I'm willing to wait on some of them...it took DLO 4 years to blossom. Let's wait and see what happens this summer and this cast judgement. |
If Magic lands someone like Kemba Walker, we just wasted a couple years. We would have dumped Russell (an all-star now), Randle, Nance, and Clarkson for Kemba Walker (or Klay Thompson, or whoever).. |
I think this is the correct way too look at it...
Too early to judge yet but what you just said are the parameters and the barometer for if Magic made the right moves.
I think Kawhi is somewhat in play. I think Kyrie is very much in play. Klay depends on if GS maxes him. KD seems like a no-go. Anyone else, is a failure. You could argue Klay and Kyrie would be but I won't. |
Not to butt in...but... I don’t think it’s a failure at at all if the Lakers gave up DLO, Randle, Nance, Clarkson and Zu all of whom are not difference makers as “net loss” and yielded say Klay/Kyree/Kemba + Lebron and the kids who have movable contracts for a third star or even hang on to them as “net gain”. At the very least, Lakers are in a much better financial situation than they were with Mitch and Jim and that is a very good thing..... |
You're not butting in mang...
Kyrie and Klay I agree would be worth all that we've lost. Some argue different but I would not.
But to lose DLO, Randle, Nance, and Clarkson, collectively, to sign a 6'1 28 year old scoring pg (not even in top 5) or a half step version of Boogie is just not a good trade off. I agree none of those guys are good sidekicks on a championship team but neither is Kemba or Boogie or Middleton or Butler. |
Kemba and Boogie isn't the greatest outcome... but it's still better than ending up with AD and LBJ and low quality ringchasers if you keep your picks and some of your core. |
AD is a special player, there is a price you pay to get him... even under circumstances which we seem like shoe in's to get him in FA.
If you can keep any one of Kuzma, Lonzo, or BI, I'd call it a win. Financially, BI and Lonzo haver to be in the deal. So that leaves BI, ZO, Hart, Draft Choice, Wagner, Future 1st. And then absorb into whatever space is left after signing the max we all hope we do.
Kyrie/SG/LeBron/Kuzma/AD is an absolute win and I don't care if nothing is left around them. We can make that work with minimum guys and ring chasers. |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Kyrie going to sign for 29 million? |
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waterman40
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think its the other way around now - we sign Kyrie in the off-season and still look to trade for AD, especially if he is determined to come here in 2020 anyway.
Part of me wants to just sign Kyrie (or another top tier player like him), keep the youth, and wait until 2020 to sign AD. If we don't have a max slot available, sign a one year deal with the player option, he opts out, and then we re-sign him again with his Bird rights and give him the bigger payday in 2021.
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LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | I think its the other way around now - we sign Kyrie in the off-season and still look to trade for AD, especially if he is determined to come here in 2020 anyway.
Part of me wants to just sign Kyrie (or another top tier player like him), keep the youth, and wait until 2020 to sign AD. If we don't have a max slot available, sign a one year deal with the player option, he opts out, and then we re-sign him again with his Bird rights and give him the bigger payday in 2021. |
You don't get Bird rights after 1 year. |
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