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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject:

where24happens wrote:
The free agent plan was and is literally our only chance. Do you really think our core + DLo + Randle would've made the playoffs this year? That is an insane take. Our young core lost to the Knicks and Cavs this year, they are demonstrably one of the worst teams in the NBA without Lebron. Getting superstars is the only way. We don't have the homegrown talent to do a full rebuild organically, the young guys just aren't good enough.


LongBeachPoly wrote:
This is why it's so hard to have a conversation. Everything has to be an exact quote or the conversation goes no where.

I mean, you are against the max FA plan. Ok, seems like you'd rather have stayed the course?

Nope, you say that's not it either. Yeah, I have no idea then.


I'll include you both in this response. I've explained how I would have preferred to approach things many, many times over the past eight months, and I'm not going to give you the full blown explanation. The disconnect is that both of you are seeing things in binary terms: the two max FA strategy or stick with the kids. There is a third option: function like a competent NBA front office. If you don't want to keep a player, trade the player for value. If you see a good opportunity to make a trade or sign a free agent, go for it. Accumulate assets and use them.

Chasing superstars in free agency is not the only way to play the game. That's a quick fix strategy, and it is actually high risk. The free agents can blow you off. The free agents can take your money, then underachieve for whatever reason. The free agents can take your money, play just fine, but not be good enough to overcome the lack of a roster, because you've stripped it bare to clear cap space.

Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent? I guess you could make an argument about Durant, but really the answer is None. Collectively, our biggest problem is that Laker Nation lives in the past and is encumbered by memories of picking up Wilt, Kareem, and Shaq. We did sign Lebron, but a lot of people are finally realizing that this is a different kettle of fish.

If Magic pulls off the quick fix this summer, I'll tip my cap to him. If he doesn't, then we could easily wind up kicking the can down the street for five years. In fact, even if he signs one of the lesser free agents, we could wind up kicking the can down the street for five years. Magic needs to get everything right this summer.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:

I don't think Jim and Mitch were all that great, but if they were still in charge, we'd still have LeBron, and we'd probably have either PG, Kawhi, or AD; because they wouldn't have salary dumped D'Angelo Russell. The Nets managed to get rid of Mozgov without having to give up a # 2 pick in the draft.


There's no evidence to support this. In fact, I think the reason why Jeannie stepped in to take over was because Jim had zero clout and screwed up most talks. I'm ok with giving Mitch a pass because he's done solid work even if it wasn't infallible.

But having warm memories of Jim as our leader is, to be generous, delusional.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


Correct. He wouldn't even take a meeting. Westbrook threw him a party and I guess that was super high on his list of priorities.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:35 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?


Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?


Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward


Well yeah sure but other than those fiveā€¦none.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:

I don't think Jim and Mitch were all that great, but if they were still in charge, we'd still have LeBron, and we'd probably have either PG, Kawhi, or AD; because they wouldn't have salary dumped D'Angelo Russell. The Nets managed to get rid of Mozgov without having to give up a # 2 pick in the draft.


There's no evidence to support this. In fact, I think the reason why Jeannie stepped in to take over was because Jim had zero clout and screwed up most talks. I'm ok with giving Mitch a pass because he's done solid work even if it wasn't infallible.

But having warm memories of Jim as our leader is, to be generous, delusional.


Jim has two rings as Lakers president of operations.

By the logic of Kobe, everything else is bull****.

Magic has made some clear mistakes, acting out of emotion and spite and wanting to erase whatever Jim and Mitch had done. So I mean maybe they add a marquee guy this summer, but if they do it's really credit to Lebron. Lebron chose to come here, that was the Klutch plan. Rondo Stephenson etc came here because Lebron.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


After destroying relations with his agent. Maginka only save so far is Lebron, thats it
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


He mishandled it in numerous ways. Not making a better effort at trading for him (make him feel wanted--he probably felt a little slighted that the Lakers valued Brandon Who? over him). And the way Magic handled Mintz and his clients was a huge blunder. You'd think having an agent in his front office would have avoided this.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


He mishandled it in numerous ways. Not making a better effort at trading for him (make him feel wanted--he probably felt a little slighted that the Lakers valued Brandon Who? over him). And the way Magic handled Mintz and his clients was a huge blunder. You'd think having an agent in his front office would have avoided this.


False.

Was PG's idea not to trade for him and keep the core intact.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


With Indy. Magic publicly declared that Ingram was untradeable, and that was the end of any possibility of getting PG.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:54 pm    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


Correct. He wouldn't even take a meeting. Westbrook threw him a party and I guess that was super high on his list of priorities.


He also taped a 3 part documentary before FA opened.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


With Indy. Magic publicly declared that Ingram was untradeable, and that was the end of any possibility of getting PG.


see post above.


Why would you trade for someone who said he's coming anyways?

PG was Lakerbound...money got to him. End of story.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:

I don't think Jim and Mitch were all that great, but if they were still in charge, we'd still have LeBron, and we'd probably have either PG, Kawhi, or AD; because they wouldn't have salary dumped D'Angelo Russell. The Nets managed to get rid of Mozgov without having to give up a # 2 pick in the draft.


There's no evidence to support this. In fact, I think the reason why Jeannie stepped in to take over was because Jim had zero clout and screwed up most talks. I'm ok with giving Mitch a pass because he's done solid work even if it wasn't infallible.

But having warm memories of Jim as our leader is, to be generous, delusional.


Jeanie fired Jim and Mitch because Mitch nixed trading Ingram for DeMarcus Cousins. Jim was in favor of the trade. Don't just take my word for it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/sam-amick/2017/02/21/why-lakers-jeanie-buss-fired-jim-buss-mitch-kupchak/98223130/

From the article: "Jim was known to be the driving force behind the pursuit of Cousins, and Jeanie had previously been known to be confident that Laker Land would have a calming effect on the mercurial big man, but Kupchak refused to include Ingram and now it becomes a great what-if.

Jeanie was fed up, all right, and so the ground shook in Laker Land."

Jim was open to trading Ingram for DMC, so he would've definitely offered him up for PG, Kawhi, or AD.

And do you really think Jim and Mitch would've dumped D'Angelo Russell just to get rid of Moz? He was their first pick of the tank. They had way more invested in him than Magic did.
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2019
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:01 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


Correct. He wouldn't even take a meeting. Westbrook threw him a party and I guess that was super high on his list of priorities.


He also taped a 3 part documentary before FA opened.


Seriously... PG not coming had zero to do with LeBron.

There were many of us on this board who felt like the right move was to trade BI + Deng for PG. Would Indy have done that? Who knows. But hindsight it would have been a good move if everything else played out like it did with LeBron and PG balling like this.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


With Indy. Magic publicly declared that Ingram was untradeable, and that was the end of any possibility of getting PG.


see post above.


Why would you trade for someone who said he's coming anyways?

PG was Lakerbound...money got to him. End of story.


For the exact reason we saw play out. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush, and convincing PG to sign would've been a lot easier if he was already here. We could've offered up Ingram, Randle, and the Josh Hart pick and gotten it done.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
32 wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


Correct. He wouldn't even take a meeting. Westbrook threw him a party and I guess that was super high on his list of priorities.


He also taped a 3 part documentary before FA opened.


Seriously... PG not coming had zero to do with LeBron.

There were many of us on this board who felt like the right move was to trade BI + Deng for PG. Would Indy have done that? Who knows. But hindsight it would have been a good move if everything else played out like it did with LeBron and PG balling like this.


No. From what I remember they wanted Ingram and the #2. What they ended up with is probably better than that anyway.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations


there were no negotiations...PG went for the moolah


With Indy. Magic publicly declared that Ingram was untradeable, and that was the end of any possibility of getting PG.


see post above.


Why would you trade for someone who said he's coming anyways?

PG was Lakerbound...money got to him. End of story.


For the exact reason we saw play out. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush, and convincing PG to sign would've been a lot easier if he was already here. We could've offered up Ingram, Randle, and the Josh Hart pick and gotten it done.


As if Kevin Pritchard is truly gonna deal with us...not exactly a bird in hand situation.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:12 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?


Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13


Trades


Quote:

SAS-Aldridge


In contention?


Quote:

GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie


Got to that point without KD. Iguodala was a trade (and not a superstar) and Boogie is certainly not a superstar in his present condition (if at all).


Quote:

Celtics-Horford, Hayward


Not superstars
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:17 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?


Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward


In addition to what Mick Mgl posted, Aldridge is not a superstar. You cut the sentence from my post where I referred to Durant. You can argue it, but the Warriors already had two trips to the Finals and a title before Durant joined.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:19 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?


Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13
SAS-Aldridge
GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie
Celtics-Horford, Hayward


In addition to what Mick Mgl posted, Aldridge is not a superstar. You cut the sentence from my post where I referred to Durant. You can argue it, but the Warriors already had two trips to the Finals and a title before Durant joined.


I would conclude therefore that the answer is zero.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject:

MickMgl wrote:
Hero Ball wrote:
Quote:
Look at the teams that are in contention this year. How many of them got to that point by signing a superstar free agent?


Hou-Harden, CP3
OKC-PG13


Trades


Quote:

SAS-Aldridge


In contention?


Quote:

GS-Iggy, KD, Boogie


Got to that point without KD. Iguodala was a trade (and not a superstar) and Boogie is certainly not a superstar in his present condition (if at all).


Quote:

Celtics-Horford, Hayward


Not superstars


Basically Harden and CP3 were sign and trades esp. CP3

Aldridge...they were contenders with him until Kawhi wanted out.

Iggy agreed in principle to sign with Dubs...trade was designed afterwards.

Horford and Hayward were franchise players.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
Threatt_Level wrote:

I don't think Jim and Mitch were all that great, but if they were still in charge, we'd still have LeBron, and we'd probably have either PG, Kawhi, or AD; because they wouldn't have salary dumped D'Angelo Russell. The Nets managed to get rid of Mozgov without having to give up a # 2 pick in the draft.


There's no evidence to support this. In fact, I think the reason why Jeannie stepped in to take over was because Jim had zero clout and screwed up most talks. I'm ok with giving Mitch a pass because he's done solid work even if it wasn't infallible.

But having warm memories of Jim as our leader is, to be generous, delusional.



"warm memories os Jim as our leader" Well, at least Jim did not pose for a mens magazine in his older years. At least Jim did not host thousands of s*x parties (where who knows how many women/men may may been taken advantage of). At least Jim was not accused of rape. At least Jim did not parade around with young escorts.

Maybe none of the above is bad (except for the rape accusation), but are those the "qualities" that make for a better "leader"??? Also, just because Jim may have been "boring", or it appeared that way, does not mean that Jim should be treated like crap and the subsequesnt "leaders" deemed better when compared to him.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Jim needed to go. The signings of Moz/Deng were one of the worst signings in Lakers history. And he was feeling so generous he gave JC a 4 year $50M contract. Jeanie did the right thing firing Jim. Magic now has his chance.
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Last edited by 32 on Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Jim needed to go. Do you ever wonder why he hasn't gotten a job working for another team as an executive. It's because he was incompetent as head of basketball operations for the Lakers. No team would hire him. The signings of Moz/Deng were one of the worst signings in Lakers history. And he was feeling so generous he gave JC a 4 year $50M contract. Jeanie did the right thing firing Jim. Magic now has his chance.


Wait what?!?!?!

Prob one of the MAIn reason is he owns the lakers?!?! :

He sux thhough
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