Did the Lakers Punt Too Soon on Julius Randle, D'Angelo Russell and Others?
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dabask11
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Dominator wrote:
There are people in this thread that called Russell a bust in his rookie year. Now that he's an all-star at age 22, they still won't admit they were wrong. Pathetic.


Pretty much.

I'm not angry at the FO about the trade, although I would have liked to have kept DLO. I do hope the Lakers end up winning titles with the strategy they're taking.

But most of the LG DLO critics do come across as pathetic. He's not a bust, he's an All-Star, and he's a major reason Brooklyn is climbing out of the cellar. We drafted a good player, it's as simple as that.


I was hard on DLO and his RPM has him as the 16tMh best PG in the league. He had a great month at the right time, was helped by an injury to dipo and is in the easier conference. Not to disparage what he’s done, he has done better then I thought and I was wrong, but let’s be honest, this may be his only all star appearance.


Historically, the people who've made the all star team at around his age tend to make multiple appearances.


This probably means he may have multiple all star appearances. Iirc it’s the coaches who helped select the alternate?


Interestingly enough, if you look at the #2 picks since 1990 only 2 guards were not named to the all star team at least once: Mike bibby and Jay Williams. Bibby was pretty good as we can attest to during the LA/Sac series and Jay Williams we'll never know due to his accident. It bodes well for Lonzo's trajectory.

It's the forwards/centers at the #2 that tend to not reach stardom/bust.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:05 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Dominator wrote:
There are people in this thread that called Russell a bust in his rookie year. Now that he's an all-star at age 22, they still won't admit they were wrong. Pathetic.


Pretty much.

I'm not angry at the FO about the trade, although I would have liked to have kept DLO. I do hope the Lakers end up winning titles with the strategy they're taking.

But most of the LG DLO critics do come across as pathetic. He's not a bust, he's an All-Star, and he's a major reason Brooklyn is climbing out of the cellar. We drafted a good player, it's as simple as that.


I was hard on DLO and his RPM has him as the 16th best PG in the league. He had a great month at the right time, was helped by an injury to dipo and is in the easier conference. Not to disparage what he’s done, he has done better then I thought and I was wrong, but let’s be honest, this may be his only all star appearance.


Historically, the people who've made the all star team at around his age tend to make multiple appearances.


This probably means he may have multiple all star appearances. Iirc it’s the coaches who helped select the alternate?


The logic on this is backward. The reality is that all time great players are usually great right away and make all star teams. Getting selected early isn’t indicative of greatness, the greats are just selected early.


No. The logic that he won’t make it anymore is backward. Getting an all star nod in gear 4 presages more possible future appearances in years 5-?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
crucifixion wrote:
Trading dlo and dropping randle got us LeBron. I think I can live with that


We'd have been able to keep both and had the space to sign LeBron.


I'm not going to go thru revisionist history with you but getting rid of mozgov was necessary and it cost dlo. I will heed the point on randle but we wanted the freedom for this summer. So come July there will be someone else we get that we wouldn't have been able to had we still had randle. It's still a work in progress and each move we make had five future moves already into consideration. We're going exactly to plan and before next season starts we'll have a stud team contending for a championship
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject:

The day Dlo was traded, I flipped out on LG. Probably the most posts I made in LG history to be honest.

I saw something in the kid. Sure he was immature, but did the Lakers give up on Kobe his first years when he made rap videos? Not comparing, just observing.

First ex Laker All Star since... Gasol? Not sure but well deserved. After he wasn't called a leader, he didn't complain. Just went out, shut up and balled.
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JPaulK0n
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Pelicans fan thoughts on Randle's season, not the most endearing:
Quote:
oh and Randle has been an empty stats guy for NO. Im sure he was better in LA, but his defense this year has been so bad that Jahlil Okafor has actually been an improvement over him.

Quote:
yea sure the pelicans are bad on defense, there are other problems. I'm not basing this off of stats, ive watched Randle, he's terrible. He's really talented but his basketball IQ is incredibly poor. If Randle plays against a team with no ball movement and is allowed to just defend 1 on 1 he's good. Throw one pass, make one cut or set one screen and hes just embarrassing.
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matigol
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:54 am    Post subject:

DLO played like a scrub as the season began and now he's an Allstar? This is a joke!

But there must be a lot of loyal Nets fans out there


What about LeVert ? Is he a HOF then? Hes more valuable than DLO
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject:

matigol wrote:
DLO played like a scrub as the season began and now he's an Allstar? This is a joke!

But there must be a lot of loyal Nets fans out there


What about LeVert ? Is he a HOF then? Hes more valuable than DLO


He took the Nets into a winning record despite LeVert going down with major injury. He exceeded expectations and played All Star level so he deserved the nod.
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject:

matigol wrote:
DLO played like a scrub as the season began and now he's an Allstar? This is a joke!


If by a scrub you mean 15/6/4 on 42% shooting from three, then sure.

Russell's averages per month this season:

October: 15.1 points (40.6% fg, 42% 3p, 82.4% ft), 3.8 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 0.5 blocks, 0.8 steals, in 28.3 minutes
November: 19.5 points (40.8% fg, 33.6% 3p, 72.2% ft), 4 rebounds, 5.8 assists, 0.3 blocks, 1.6 steals in 29.5 minutes
December: 17.9 points (44% fg, 34.1% 3p, 88.2% ft), 3.5 rebounds, 6.8 assists, 0.9 blocks, 1.7 steals in 29.5 minutes
January: 23.8 points (47.9% fg, 41.3% 3p, 85.3% ft, 3.9 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 0.3 blocks, 1.3 steals in 30.6 minutes

He's certainly stepped up his game recently, but he's been playing well most of the season.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:14 am    Post subject:

Biggest reason we need to keep BI. I remember the moan and groans about DRuss. Eerily the same as BI. Weak, not consistent, slow footed, not a leader, etc. Damn I even questioned the guy because he wasn’t able to get to the rim. Lesson learned.


BI in his third year is already showing his skill set and patience is needed to see what these guys can become. These past month he has been improving drastically. But wait... what about the 3? Once again I preach patience. He has the tools and want to, to be that guy that we are foaming about when we talk about the now that is Julius and DRuss.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:22 am    Post subject:

Yes.
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JM
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Yes.


The front office sold us on being patient on the young core...then the aging LeBronze came and his deterioration (and injuries) panicked Johnson like it did when he was a coach (he has undependable and erratic patience.). With the injuries and trade talk, it is the front office fault, not the core, for lack of team cohesion and enthusiasm.

LeBronze cannot dominate the ball because his skills (defense, quickness, ball handling) have fallen off. (I am not saying he isn’t great and fun to watch.) He still reverts to forced hero ball out of frustration, rather than rely upon team mates fully. Not gonna work. And surrounding him with Lance and even Rondo, when shooters were needed, is a mis-calculation.

As I write this, Randall, Zu, Russell and even Clarkson are doing well. Ball, Ingram and Kuz are progressing........I would have much more hope and rooting interest for the current Lakers if full patience had been exercised. Impossible, I know,given the salary cap..... frustrating to watch all this. What happened to Thos. Bryant?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:14 am    Post subject:

Giannis's third year... the Bucks were 33-49... and Khris and Giannis were leading the team in scoring with 18.2 and 16.9 PPG

We'd probably have a similar record with Kuzma and Ingram leading the team with Kuzma scoring 19.1 and BI scoring 17.5 PPG

Except both would score more because LBJ wouldn't be playing along side them.

The Warriors were patient and kept their core. The Bucks were patient and kept Khris and Giannis

DLO is 28th in scoring... Julius is 30th... Lou Williams is 32nd... Kuzma is 35th... Ingram is 44th... Even Clarkson is 53rd.

Untouchables Ben and Tatum are 52nd and 56th in scoring.

And all we can do is obsess about trading all of our youth for AD.

The definition of insanity, my friends... you know the rest of the saying.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject:

D'Angelo Russell 40 Points 7 Assists



Julius Randle 24 and 5



Yes, we punted too early, that were the first decisions Magilinka made.

Sucks because this team of youngsters

Starters:
Lonzo Ball
D'Angelo Russell
Brandon Ingram | LeBron James
LeBron James | Julius Randle
Ivica Zubac

Bench:
Rajon Rondo
Jordan Clarkson
Kyle Kuzma | Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle | Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr.

Would have been coming on at just the right time, to go against a team like the Warriors. But alas. That was Mitch's plan, not Magic and Pelinka's.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject:

JPaulK0n wrote:
Pelicans fan thoughts on Randle's season, not the most endearing:
Quote:
oh and Randle has been an empty stats guy for NO. Im sure he was better in LA, but his defense this year has been so bad that Jahlil Okafor has actually been an improvement over him.

Quote:
yea sure the pelicans are bad on defense, there are other problems. I'm not basing this off of stats, ive watched Randle, he's terrible. He's really talented but his basketball IQ is incredibly poor. If Randle plays against a team with no ball movement and is allowed to just defend 1 on 1 he's good. Throw one pass, make one cut or set one screen and hes just embarrassing.


Not a shocker. These aren't inaccurate, just harsh. I think they are hyperbole of real issues in Randle's game.

IMHO, Randle would have been the best version of himself if he had chosen to come back to LA, even at a reduced cost. It would have been risky but Randle next to LeBron, Lonzo and Rondo? He could have made up any lost money this next summer.
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GameCock-MD
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
D'Angelo Russell 40 Points 7 Assists



Julius Randle 24 and 5



Yes, we punted too early, that were the first decisions Magilinka made.

Sucks because this team of youngsters

Starters:
Lonzo Ball
D'Angelo Russell
Brandon Ingram | LeBron James
LeBron James | Julius Randle
Ivica Zubac

Bench:
Rajon Rondo
Jordan Clarkson
Kyle Kuzma | Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle | Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr.

Would have been coming on at just the right time, to go against a team like the Warriors. But alas. That was Mitch's plan, not Magic and Pelinka's.


Sigh...I don't mean any disrespect but don't forget that we got Kuzma because of the pick from the Russell Trade.

Getting rid of Mozgov is what gave us room to get LeBron.

We'd still have both Deng and Mozgov on the books if we didn't trade Russell.


And Randle chose NOP. He could have waited, stayed with the Lakers for a lower salary and hit the market summer 2019...that was on him.

Lakers have given up young players but they got good things in return.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject:

Yes.

Randle may be empty stats, but he set a tone for being physical in the paint last year next to Brook.

I think this year's team needs that. Can't outfinesse other teams like the Warriors.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject:

That and the team knew how to best utilize him defensively.
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Last edited by MJST on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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GameCock-MD
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Yes.

Randle may be empty stats, but he set a tone for being physical in the paint last year next to Brook.

I think this year's team needs that. Can't outfinesse other teams like the Warriors.


I agree we need that. I don't think we are a worse team without it...just different.

Injuries have hurt us far more this year than not having Randle.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject:

GameCock-MD wrote:

don't forget that we got Kuzma because of the pick from the Russell Trade.

Getting rid of Mozgov is what gave us room to get LeBron.

We'd still have both Deng and Mozgov on the books if we didn't trade Russell.


And Randle chose NOP. He could have waited, stayed with the Lakers for a lower salary and hit the market summer 2019...that was on him.



And everything you just said, is wrong.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:

don't forget that we got Kuzma because of the pick from the Russell Trade.

Getting rid of Mozgov is what gave us room to get LeBron.

We'd still have both Deng and Mozgov on the books if we didn't trade Russell.


And Randle chose NOP. He could have waited, stayed with the Lakers for a lower salary and hit the market summer 2019...that was on him.



And everything you just said, is wrong.


Kuzma? 27th pick from BKN.

We couldn't stretch both Deng and Mozgov. Would not have had 2 max slots, which is what Magic and Pelinka were shooting for. We thought we had PG13 and Magic got us LeBron.

Randle was a free agent. He could have stayed for a lower salary.


Saying something is wrong doesn't actually make it wrong.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:41 am    Post subject:

GameCock-MD wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Yes.

Randle may be empty stats, but he set a tone for being physical in the paint last year next to Brook.

I think this year's team needs that. Can't outfinesse other teams like the Warriors.


I agree we need that. I don't think we are a worse team without it...just different.

Injuries have hurt us far more this year than not having Randle.


Having Russell and Randle increases team depth, to prevent injury.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Yes.

Randle may be empty stats, but he set a tone for being physical in the paint last year next to Brook.

I think this year's team needs that. Can't outfinesse other teams like the Warriors.


I agree we need that. I don't think we are a worse team without it...just different.

Injuries have hurt us far more this year than not having Randle.


Having Russell and Randle increases team depth, to prevent injury.


Not sure you can predict that. Randle broke his leg as a rookie in the first 15 minutes of his career.

You can't predict injury. Rondo missed major time and he was the back up. So did Chandler. Same with Hart.

Our entire team has been banged up and we've played around 9 players in our regular rotation. (Lonzo/Ingram/LeBron/Kuzma/McGee/Chandler/Rondo/Lance/Hart/KCP)...that's actually 10. That's deeper than most teams. Depth isn't an issue.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:55 am    Post subject:

GameCock-MD wrote:
MJST wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:

don't forget that we got Kuzma because of the pick from the Russell Trade.

Getting rid of Mozgov is what gave us room to get LeBron.

We'd still have both Deng and Mozgov on the books if we didn't trade Russell.


And Randle chose NOP. He could have waited, stayed with the Lakers for a lower salary and hit the market summer 2019...that was on him.



And everything you just said, is wrong.


Kuzma? 27th pick from BKN.

We couldn't stretch both Deng and Mozgov. Would not have had 2 max slots, which is what Magic and Pelinka were shooting for. We thought we had PG13 and Magic got us LeBron.

Randle was a free agent. He could have stayed for a lower salary.


Saying something is wrong doesn't actually make it wrong.


We had the 28th pick and Brooklyn has said Kuzma wasn't on their radar.

We traded Mozgov and Russell to create cap space one year down the line in hopes of signing two max guys. We didn't sign two max guys last summer, and the Nets were able to shed Mozgov that same summer without giving up a high value asset.

Randle didn't want to stay after we made it abundantly clear he was low priority to us and that chasing max superstars was. This was after he lived up to the expectations set forth by the FO (body fat % in particularly) in the prior offseason and was rewarded with demotion from the starting lineup and inconsistent minutes.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject:

This is why I hope we don’t give up on the youth we have now. I think the front office got too over confident in believing that we’d sign two stars and fill the rest out with the youngsters but now that the plan doesn’t seem too certain I hope they don’t push the panic button. The moment we signed Lebron development went out the window. That’s why Luke is no longer the coach for this team and patience for these youngsters to develop is not there.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject:

KBH wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:
MJST wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:

don't forget that we got Kuzma because of the pick from the Russell Trade.

Getting rid of Mozgov is what gave us room to get LeBron.

We'd still have both Deng and Mozgov on the books if we didn't trade Russell.


And Randle chose NOP. He could have waited, stayed with the Lakers for a lower salary and hit the market summer 2019...that was on him.



And everything you just said, is wrong.


Kuzma? 27th pick from BKN.

We couldn't stretch both Deng and Mozgov. Would not have had 2 max slots, which is what Magic and Pelinka were shooting for. We thought we had PG13 and Magic got us LeBron.

Randle was a free agent. He could have stayed for a lower salary.


Saying something is wrong doesn't actually make it wrong.


We had the 28th pick and Brooklyn has said Kuzma wasn't on their radar.

We traded Mozgov and Russell to create cap space one year down the line in hopes of signing two max guys. We didn't sign two max guys last summer, and the Nets were able to shed Mozgov that same summer without giving up a high value asset.

Randle didn't want to stay after we made it abundantly clear he was low priority to us and that chasing max superstars was. This was after he lived up to the expectations set forth by the FO (body fat % in particularly) in the prior offseason and was rewarded with demotion from the starting lineup and inconsistent minutes.


Excuse me if I don't take BKN's word...not doubting you.

We had 2 big contracts and we had to move one. Deng's was worse. We moved Russell not just to get out of that contract. We also got Lopez who was recently an All-Star, IIRC...and Lopez was a HUGE expiring contract, very valuable.

Randle had 1 good year for us - his contract year. The others were subpar or trash to the casual NBA fan. Only on the Lakers boards were Randle's "double doubles" considered a sign of greatness. NOP fans right now think he's overrated and he's having a better statistical year than ever with the Lakers.

Randle was a better fit here even though he was a low priority. He could have made a LOT more money coming off a season next to LeBron helping the Lakers make the playoffs than he did coming off a 35 win season that was garbage.

It was a business move. I understand getting the money and I'd have likely done the same in his situation. Doesn't mean it was the smartest move.

And my assertion was it was Randle's choice. Do you disagree?
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