Is Blake Griffin a HOFamer?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.



They've only played 7 games so you can't judge his season yet. He's putting up 19-14-4. He's shooting like crap, but I suspect that's going to rise and he'll end up with stats comparable to what he did in Minnesota.


Yes when talking about this yr - there is the caveat that it’s way early

I acknowledge that.

But, can you on the one hand tell me it’s way early and I can’t judge and then on the other hand - say you feel he’ll end up putting up Minny #s?



Right now, it seems moot because he hurt his foot and may miss the whole season.

In the first seven games his 19-14-4 is actually pretty comparable to his time in Minn. The only thing that's off is his shooting percentages. Those are so low compared to his career norm that I predicted they would swing back to the norm over time.

Anyway, it's moot now.


In other words, if you have a pessimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, it's way too early. However, if you have an optimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, then it's not too early.

Or, if I agree with your viewpoint, it's not too early; but, if I disagree with your outlook, then it's way too early.

That's interesting how you rationalized how some opinions are way too early but other opinions are not.


That's not quite it. If a long time veteran starts the season shooting either very hot or very cold, I don't expect him to continue to be very hot or very cold for the entire 82 games. Over the course of the season, I expect him to gravitate toward his career norms. So, my expectation is that if love had stayed healthy, his shooting would have improved more toward his normal level.

In the same way, I don't expect Rudy Gay to maintain the 56% three-point shooting that he's had to start the season. His career average from 3-point is 34.5%, so I expect overtime he'll gravitate toward his career normal as well


But it could also turn out to be his worst season of his career.

Just as much chance as him returning to his best days (which you predicted that he'd put up Minny type numbers).

You can say that this might be the worst team of his career. His skills have diminished, he's shooting more this year.

But anyhow, 7 games is too early. It's too early to say he'll be this bad all year and it's too early to say he'll go back to his Minny days. You disagree. That's cool. I just found that to be inconsistent.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject:

He hasn’t gotten injured in Detroit because he still just got there. He has only played 33 games since he was traded there.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.



They've only played 7 games so you can't judge his season yet. He's putting up 19-14-4. He's shooting like crap, but I suspect that's going to rise and he'll end up with stats comparable to what he did in Minnesota.


Yes when talking about this yr - there is the caveat that it’s way early

I acknowledge that.

But, can you on the one hand tell me it’s way early and I can’t judge and then on the other hand - say you feel he’ll end up putting up Minny #s?



Right now, it seems moot because he hurt his foot and may miss the whole season.

In the first seven games his 19-14-4 is actually pretty comparable to his time in Minn. The only thing that's off is his shooting percentages. Those are so low compared to his career norm that I predicted they would swing back to the norm over time.

Anyway, it's moot now.


In other words, if you have a pessimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, it's way too early. However, if you have an optimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, then it's not too early.

Or, if I agree with your viewpoint, it's not too early; but, if I disagree with your outlook, then it's way too early.

That's interesting how you rationalized how some opinions are way too early but other opinions are not.


That's not quite it. If a long time veteran starts the season shooting either very hot or very cold, I don't expect him to continue to be very hot or very cold for the entire 82 games. Over the course of the season, I expect him to gravitate toward his career norms. So, my expectation is that if love had stayed healthy, his shooting would have improved more toward his normal level.

In the same way, I don't expect Rudy Gay to maintain the 56% three-point shooting that he's had to start the season. His career average from 3-point is 34.5%, so I expect overtime he'll gravitate toward his career normal as well


But it could also turn out to be his worst season of his career.

Just as much chance as him returning to his best days (which you predicted that he'd put up Minny type numbers).

You can say that this might be the worst team of his career. His skills have diminished, he's shooting more this year.

But anyhow, 7 games is too early. It's too early to say he'll be this bad all year and it's too early to say he'll go back to his Minny days. You disagree. That's cool. I just found that to be inconsistent.


You're missing my point. Right now, he's putting up 19-14-4, which are all-star numbers. The only negatives are his poor shooting percentages. They are so dramatically below what he has ever shot before, it seems reasonable to assume they are likely to rise. And they don't need to rise all that much to become a non-issue. So even if this ended up being his worst shooting season, his scoring and rebounding numbers would be so good no one would care much.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.



They've only played 7 games so you can't judge his season yet. He's putting up 19-14-4. He's shooting like crap, but I suspect that's going to rise and he'll end up with stats comparable to what he did in Minnesota.


Yes when talking about this yr - there is the caveat that it’s way early

I acknowledge that.

But, can you on the one hand tell me it’s way early and I can’t judge and then on the other hand - say you feel he’ll end up putting up Minny #s?



Right now, it seems moot because he hurt his foot and may miss the whole season.

In the first seven games his 19-14-4 is actually pretty comparable to his time in Minn. The only thing that's off is his shooting percentages. Those are so low compared to his career norm that I predicted they would swing back to the norm over time.

Anyway, it's moot now.


In other words, if you have a pessimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, it's way too early. However, if you have an optimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, then it's not too early.

Or, if I agree with your viewpoint, it's not too early; but, if I disagree with your outlook, then it's way too early.

That's interesting how you rationalized how some opinions are way too early but other opinions are not.


That's not quite it. If a long time veteran starts the season shooting either very hot or very cold, I don't expect him to continue to be very hot or very cold for the entire 82 games. Over the course of the season, I expect him to gravitate toward his career norms. So, my expectation is that if love had stayed healthy, his shooting would have improved more toward his normal level.

In the same way, I don't expect Rudy Gay to maintain the 56% three-point shooting that he's had to start the season. His career average from 3-point is 34.5%, so I expect overtime he'll gravitate toward his career normal as well


But it could also turn out to be his worst season of his career.

Just as much chance as him returning to his best days (which you predicted that he'd put up Minny type numbers).

You can say that this might be the worst team of his career. His skills have diminished, he's shooting more this year.

But anyhow, 7 games is too early. It's too early to say he'll be this bad all year and it's too early to say he'll go back to his Minny days. You disagree. That's cool. I just found that to be inconsistent.


You're missing my point. Right now, he's putting up 19-14-4, which are all-star numbers. The only negatives are his poor shooting percentages. They are so dramatically below what he has ever shot before, it seems reasonable to assume they are likely to rise. And they don't need to rise all that much to become a non-issue. So even if this ended up being his worst shooting season, his scoring and rebounding numbers would be so good no one would care much.


Gotcha.

19 stays the same
14 stays the same
fg% goes up

some predictions are too early, others are "reasonable"

And you determine which is which.

But there's also the matter of him never making the playoffs before LeBron. And now, after LeBron, his team being the worst team in the league (after making the finals the last 4 years).

So, that's a potential bad mark on his HOF resume. Wait, am I allowed to make that statement or is that too early as well? You let me know.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:45 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:


Gotcha.

19 stays the same
14 stays the same
fg% goes up

some predictions are too early, others are "reasonable"

And you determine which is which.

But there's also the matter of him never making the playoffs before LeBron. And now, after LeBron, his team being the worst team in the league (after making the finals the last 4 years).

So, that's a potential bad mark on his HOF resume. Wait, am I allowed to make that statement or is that too early as well? You let me know.


My point is if a long-time veteran starts the season very hot or very cold, shooting at a much different level than he has throughout his career, I expect the law of averages to kick in and for that very hot or very cold start to correct itself. That’s pretty much it for me.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject:

Love is an empty stats player IMO. The only thing he actually does at an elite level is rebound. I think LeBron/Kyrie would have done just as well with Tristan Thompson playing PF instead of Love.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Chris Webber was way better and he didn't get it.


My guess is that Webber has been kept out because of all the college scandal stuff.

But the Basketball Hall is mysterious. You don't know how decisions are made or what the politics are. Sometime in the future the voters could change and he could suddenly get in.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Blake definitely fell off the HOF track he may have been on earlier in his career.....but "if" he can continue this season the way he is playing now, and add a few more similar seasons, then he will once again be on track to have a chance.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject:

Sure, the further removed he is from dunking Blake, the better his chances.
The narrative will swing in his favour especially as he 'skills up' more.

A sympathetic HOFamer.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject:

wow, Is Blake better than C.Webb? kinda like is Melo better than T.Mac? No and No
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject:

I don't understand why people have such a high opinion of Chris Webber. He had a couple good seasons, but for the most part his career was a disappointment. I guess it's just the passage of time that makes people forget the negatives.

Anyway, I would rate Blake Griffin as a marginally better player than Webber.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I don't understand why people have such a high opinion of Chris Webber. He had a couple good seasons, but for the most part his career was a disappointment. I guess it's just the passage of time that makes people forget the negatives.

Anyway, I would rate Blake Griffin as a marginally better player than Webber.


It's interesting: On the face of it, Webber has HoF credentials -- 20-10 lifetime, 5-time all-star, 5-time all-NBA teams. But Basketball Reference only gives him a 14.6% chance of making the Hall -- on par with Paul Silas and Glen Rice.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
wow, Is Blake better than C.Webb? kinda like is Melo better than T.Mac? No and No


I am struggling to see what Webber accomplished in his 15 years that Blake hasn't already accomplished in his 9 years.

Melo and T Mac are a coin flip for me. T Mac had the better prime, but Melo was better for longer
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject:

I don't think so.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I don't understand why people have such a high opinion of Chris Webber. He had a couple good seasons, but for the most part his career was a disappointment. I guess it's just the passage of time that makes people forget the negatives.

Anyway, I would rate Blake Griffin as a marginally better player than Webber.


It's interesting: On the face of it, Webber has HoF credentials -- 20-10 lifetime, 5-time all-star, 5-time all-NBA teams. But Basketball Reference only gives him a 14.6% chance of making the Hall -- on par with Paul Silas and Glen Rice.


Neither are really HoF material based on their NBA careers. I won't be surprised if Webber sneaks in based on his college career and the fact that being involved in broadcasting keeps him visible. He did have a few legitimately good seasons, but he was always regarded as an underachiever. He was sort of the . . . well, the Blake Griffin of his time. As time goes by, people may forget that.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject:

I think Griffin will be. Detroit is just a few pieces away from being legit.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject:

Does his dunking ability factor in to the decision? His exhibit would have him dunking over a Kia.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject:

If he plays another few years at that same level, maybe he gets in. If he gets on a championship squad as second best guy on the team, maybe he gets in. One of those things will happen.

I see Griff as modern, somewhat improved version of Darryl Dawkins: impact-wise a disappointment and so easy to bait into poor decisions. If Griff hadn't been hampered by a nightmarish health pattern (one that may still actually work in his favor among sympathetic HoF voters), he'd probably be a shoo-in for the HoF anyway, on stats alone. Unrealized potential galore, not much feel for the game, a poor defender - adds up to someone who doesn't belong in Naismith but will probably get in.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject:

Clippers got rid of Griffin and are now the #1 seed. Does he even have any impact on the game?
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Clippers got rid of Griffin and are now the #1 seed. Does he even have any impact on the game?

The Pistons are #4 in the EC with a pretty terrible backcourt.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

Yes, I think he is. But let's give it a few more years to be sure.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Clippers got rid of Griffin and are now the #1 seed. Does he even have any impact on the game?

The Pistons are #4 in the EC with a pretty terrible backcourt.



If the season ended today, Griffin would be in the MVP discussion. I don't think he would win it, but he would be a candidate.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Clippers got rid of Griffin and are now the #1 seed. Does he even have any impact on the game?

The Pistons are #4 in the EC with a pretty terrible backcourt.


In addition, the Clippers pretty much changed out their entire team. So it's not like they simply got rid of Blake and then became more successful.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject:

Huh?

Is Blake Griffin a HOG Farmer?

yeah sure, oink, oink...
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