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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:15 pm    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
adkindo wrote:


I notice at the bottom they are weighting factors such as money raised and generic ballot.....but I struggle to see how FiveThirtyEight justifies a "likely Dem" rating in this race. Democrats having an advantage in registered voters has been a fact while Ileana Ros-Lehtinen continued to hold this seat election after election.

I get these guys have forgot more about evaluating analytical data and developing models/projections than I will ever know, but damn it feels like they are overthinking it.


My guess is that the factors you listed (money raised, generic ballot etc) are those that would impact the likelihood of the polling sample being representative of the likely make up of the population of actual voters come Nov. The factors are used to adjust the prediction accordingly. For e.g. money raised would imply more TV ads, which is likely to have the effect of encouraging more than the usual number of democrat voters to the polling booth. The idea is to reflect this in the sample composition.

Polls are only as good as the assumptions used in deciding the composition of their samples anyways. As they always say, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

PS: Of course in the age of trump, money raised might not be a good predictor anymore. So I always takes polls with a grain of salt, since he seems to be able to defy conventional wisdom. More specifically, Trump is able to consistently get an incredible amount of campaign coverage for the republicans without spending a dime. Makes buying ads seem almost obsolete. As CL stated, its almost like he drowns everything else out.

I get a lot of Youtube ads at work and I think they've figured out I'm from OC because I get a lot of "TOO LIBERAL KATIE PORTER" ads there. On Facebook I see a lot of sponsored "She's with him" posts (referring to Mimi Walters voting with Trump 99% of the time).

I can certainly imagine these sorts of ads convincing low-information voters as well as affecting Republican turnout (unenthused Republicans who would vote R at the polls but might stay home entirely)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:21 pm    Post subject:

Interesting details about who Kashoogi was
Written by Jerusalem Post
How the missing Saudi writer could affect Israel
Khashoggi was opponent of Israeli-Saudi ties, said J’lem won’t protect region from Iran
https://www.jpost.com/International/How-the-missing-Saudi-writer-could-affect-Israel-569258

Quote:
Khashoggi was once a powerful insider in Saudi Arabia, an adviser to the kingdom
who helped craft its image abroad.
However he became increasingly disillusioned with the path chosen by Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman
after MBS rose to power in 2017. Khashoggi was particularly critical of Riyadh’s approach to the Muslim Brotherhood
and political Islam. He felt the crackdown on more Islamist views was problematic. He also voiced consistent
critique of the rumors that the kingdom was growing closer to Israel. He told Al Jazeera in November
that Saudi Arabia should return to its role as a leader of the Arab world. “He deplored the authorities’ decision
to allow some in the Saudi news media to express support for
Israel against the Palestinians,” the article noted.


The Middle East Monitor asserted an Israel-Saudi relationship in an article on Thursday. “We don’t know
whether or not Israel was involved in this particular kidnapping in Istanbul,
but it’s certainly a valid avenue of enquiry for investigators.”


Then you have Trump a week earlier Trying to Punk and Saudi King at one of his rallies??
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/trump-saudi-king-wouldn-weeks-support-181003053438418.html
Quote:


"We protect Saudi Arabia. Would you say they're rich? And I love the king, King Salman.
But I said 'King - we're protecting you - you might not be there
for two weeks without us -
you have to pay for your military,'
" the president said to cheers at the rally.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Ted wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Trump is no different than Obama or any other US President in this regard. He's just dumb enough to say it out loud. In a way it's a good thing, at least he's saying what the US government's official policy really is.


No. Trump calls journalists the enemy of the people, liars and evil. He is not only whipping people up at home, he is telling autocrats around the world they are free to do whatever they want to journalist because we won't interfere.

Obama never did that.
Bill Clinton never did that.

I''m tired of these both sides bogus arguments. None of the past presidents is perfect. But Trump's basic immorality is in another stratosphere.

I saw the video and it's even WORSE than the text because his disdain for even being asked the question comes through and he is blatantly dismissive of the idea that the death of this journalist is significant in any way, and it's clear he not bothered by it AT ALL.

It's okay to have a problem with Democratic presidents, but the credibility of your argument falls apart when you try to equate any of them to the current immoral, ignorant, unfeeling, shameless buffoon.


I'm not arguing with you that Trump doesn't care, he obviously doesn't. I'm talking specifically about the US stopping business with Saudi over this matter.

Do you think Obama would stop doing business with Saudi Arabia if he knew that they kidnapped and murdered an innocent journalist?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:36 pm    Post subject:

He stopped a bunch of business with Russia over similar.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:39 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
He stopped a bunch of business with Russia over similar.


I get that. But how about Saudi Arabia specifically? We have a much stronger relationship and much deeper military relationship with them. I don't think anything would be different. However the fake outrage would definitely be different.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:42 pm    Post subject:

Ted wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
He stopped a bunch of business with Russia over similar.


I get that. But how about Saudi Arabia specifically? We have a much stronger relationship and much deeper military relationship with them. I don't think anything would be different. However the fake outrage would definitely be different.


The US and Saudi Arabia definitely had a strained relationship under Obama. Not sure I can address a specific hypothetical, but based on his other behavior, I don’t think Obama lets them lure and murder a journalist who is living in the US. He didn’t roll like that.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:44 pm    Post subject:

Btw, the outrage, like the news, isn’t fake.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Ted wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
He stopped a bunch of business with Russia over similar.


I get that. But how about Saudi Arabia specifically? We have a much stronger relationship and much deeper military relationship with them. I don't think anything would be different. However the fake outrage would definitely be different.


The US and Saudi Arabia definitely had a strained relationship under Obama. Not sure I can address a specific hypothetical, but based on his other behavior, I don’t think Obama lets them lure and murder a journalist who is living in the US. He didn’t roll like that.


I don't think he'd let them (and I'm not sure the US let this happen? Not sure on the details tbh). But if it happened under his administration, I really don't think anything would change. He might be more vocal in his anger, but behind the scenes business would run as usual.

Not to turn this into an Obama v Trump argument, but I'm just saying even though Trump is a moron, he basically says out loud what is really going to happen behind the scenes, regardless of who is president. That's how I see it, I may be wrong but I don't think I am.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:47 am    Post subject:

Ted wrote:

I don't think he'd let them (and I'm not sure the US let this happen? Not sure on the details tbh). But if it happened under his administration, I really don't think anything would change. He might be more vocal in his anger, but behind the scenes business would run as usual.

Not to turn this into an Obama v Trump argument, but I'm just saying even though Trump is a moron, he basically says out loud what is really going to happen behind the scenes, regardless of who is president. That's how I see it, I may be wrong but I don't think I am.


It's tough to say what would happen with Obama in this circumstance
But he wasn't afraid of upsetting Saudi Arabia.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/277394-how-us-saudi-ties-frayed-under-obama

Quote:
In an interview with the Atlantic published last month, Obama referred to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries as “free riders” unwilling to secure chaotic zones like Libya, angering many in the kingdom.

No single act was more significant than the signing of the Iran deal, which lifted international sanctions in exchange for limits on Tehran’s ability to build a nuclear weapon.

At its heart, the stress comes down to two different interpretations of which presents the greater threat: Iran or extremist groups such as al Qaeda and the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Saudi Arabia has made clear that its priority is on countering Iran, leaving the U.S. out to dry in some of the terrorist fights.

Saudi Arabia sees the Iran nuclear deal as something that will only embolden Tehran and, perhaps more importantly, interpreted its signing as proof that Washington was looking beyond Riyadh to position itself in the Middle East.


Trump used Saudi Arabia as distraction in the midst of a bad news cycle earlier this year. It was very awkward.
https://youtu.be/9O0uR03s7m4
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
@ribeye.....if you have a chance, take a look at this race per FiveThirtyEight.

FL-27 (FiveThirtyEight Link)

There is a lot of analytical data provided....and I am mostly just looking at the basic information. Still the site claims Shalala (D) has over a 76% chance of winning the seat over Salazar (R).

Simple facts:
- been a GOP seat for nearly 25 years (Ileana Ros-Lehtinen).
- majority Latino (Cuban American) population - Salazar is a well known Spanish speaking Cuban American famous for being a Correspondent for Telemundo and other Spanish language programming. In contrast, Shalala is not Latino, born in Cleveland and spent the majority of her life North of the Mason Dixon line.

Polls:
- Sept. 1-4 - Partisan Democrat Poll - Shalala +4
- Sept. 10-13 - Partisan Republican Poll - Salazar +9
- Oct. 1-6 - non-Partisan Poll (Mason Dixon) - Salazar +2

I notice at the bottom they are weighting factors such as money raised and generic ballot.....but I struggle to see how FiveThirtyEight justifies a "likely Dem" rating in this race. Democrats having an advantage in registered voters has been a fact while Ileana Ros-Lehtinen continued to hold this seat election after election.

I get these guys have forgot more about evaluating analytical data and developing models/projections than I will ever know, but damn it feels like they are overthinking it.


What stands out to me is

Quote:
FL-27 is 10.4 percentage points more Democratic-leaning than the country overall, based on how it has voted in recent presidential and state legislative elections.


to which Nate gives the Dem an 8.3 point advantage.

But there are are other fundamentals as well, listed at the bottom of the link you provided.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject:

@adkindo You posted polls. They're nothing but a a guess. I look at them and in some cases hope they come to frution. In others I hope they're wrong. LINK Remember Hilary was a sure thing against Trump.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

Ted wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Ted wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
He stopped a bunch of business with Russia over similar.


I get that. But how about Saudi Arabia specifically? We have a much stronger relationship and much deeper military relationship with them. I don't think anything would be different. However the fake outrage would definitely be different.


The US and Saudi Arabia definitely had a strained relationship under Obama. Not sure I can address a specific hypothetical, but based on his other behavior, I don’t think Obama lets them lure and murder a journalist who is living in the US. He didn’t roll like that.


I don't think he'd let them (and I'm not sure the US let this happen? Not sure on the details tbh). But if it happened under his administration, I really don't think anything would change. He might be more vocal in his anger, but behind the scenes business would run as usual.

Not to turn this into an Obama v Trump argument, but I'm just saying even though Trump is a moron, he basically says out loud what is really going to happen behind the scenes, regardless of who is president. That's how I see it, I may be wrong but I don't think I am.


Well, setting aside that the listed arms deal is actually not in existence, the key thing to clue in on is the fact that Trump's personal business, as well as that of his son in law, have lucrative ties and dealings with the Saudis (they spent enough money at Trump's New York hotel, for example, to take it from a loss to profitability, and Kushner is negotiating a 100 million investment from them), and that's the business he's protecting, which is why it is of course illegal for this to be happening. And oh, Obama had none of these complications.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Ted wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Trump is no different than Obama or any other US President in this regard. He's just dumb enough to say it out loud. In a way it's a good thing, at least he's saying what the US government's official policy really is.


No. Trump calls journalists the enemy of the people, liars and evil. He is not only whipping people up at home, he is telling autocrats around the world they are free to do whatever they want to journalist because we won't interfere.

Obama never did that.
Bill Clinton never did that.

I''m tired of these both sides bogus arguments. None of the past presidents is perfect. But Trump's basic immorality is in another stratosphere.

I saw the video and it's even WORSE than the text because his disdain for even being asked the question comes through and he is blatantly dismissive of the idea that the death of this journalist is significant in any way, and it's clear he not bothered by it AT ALL.

It's okay to have a problem with Democratic presidents, but the credibility of your argument falls apart when you try to equate any of them to the current immoral, ignorant, unfeeling, shameless buffoon.


Obama got mostly favorable reporting even though we had poor economic performance and skyrocketing debt despite free money from the Fed. Trump has turned the economy around despite the Fed raising rates and the reporting is 98% negative. There is a reason he attacks the media. I also remember Obama attacking Fox pretty harshly.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Nancy Pelosi said today that if they win the House, the first thing they are going to do is get Trump's taxes. She said it's a very easy thing to do.

BUT NO ONE KNOWS THAT BECAUSE KANYE AND KID ROCK VISITED WHITE HOUSE TODAY AND THE MEDIA COVERED IT LIKE A STATE VISIT FROM THE QUEEN.

I know because I follow her on Twitter. But how do you get a message out in the crazy Trump 24/7 news cycle that features 10 crazy things per day?


Just because they ask for his tax returns does not mean they will get them.

Ask those GOP house guys that want all the incriminating evidence on the deep state and they cannot get it even though they are in the same party. They will be going back and forth forever with each party using the event to get their base excited. In the end it will be a waste of time but it will take over the news cycle.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject:

paymonM wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
paymonM wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/michael-avenatti-offers-fight-donald-125002890.html

Michael Avenatti offers to fight Donald Trump Jr for charity


One of the reasons I wasn't wild about the idea people were floating around about him running in 2020.


very damaging to the democrats if he decides to run. It's fun watching him call junior a Buttercup, and even the offer to fight sounds entertaining, but if he decides to run for presidency, it will backfire.


I don't think anyone is taking the ambulance chasing porn lawyer very seriously but if I was a democrat I sure would like to get this guy off the stage. Imagine if he runs for president and gets on the debate stage.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:48 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Ted wrote:

I don't think he'd let them (and I'm not sure the US let this happen? Not sure on the details tbh). But if it happened under his administration, I really don't think anything would change. He might be more vocal in his anger, but behind the scenes business would run as usual.

Not to turn this into an Obama v Trump argument, but I'm just saying even though Trump is a moron, he basically says out loud what is really going to happen behind the scenes, regardless of who is president. That's how I see it, I may be wrong but I don't think I am.


It's tough to say what would happen with Obama in this circumstance
But he wasn't afraid of upsetting Saudi Arabia.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/277394-how-us-saudi-ties-frayed-under-obama

Quote:
In an interview with the Atlantic published last month, Obama referred to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries as “free riders” unwilling to secure chaotic zones like Libya, angering many in the kingdom.

No single act was more significant than the signing of the Iran deal, which lifted international sanctions in exchange for limits on Tehran’s ability to build a nuclear weapon.

At its heart, the stress comes down to two different interpretations of which presents the greater threat: Iran or extremist groups such as al Qaeda and the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Saudi Arabia has made clear that its priority is on countering Iran, leaving the U.S. out to dry in some of the terrorist fights.

Saudi Arabia sees the Iran nuclear deal as something that will only embolden Tehran and, perhaps more importantly, interpreted its signing as proof that Washington was looking beyond Riyadh to position itself in the Middle East.


Trump used Saudi Arabia as distraction in the midst of a bad news cycle earlier this year. It was very awkward.
https://youtu.be/9O0uR03s7m4


Obama did not have a hard time criticizing the Saudis but Iran who commits far worse atrocities regularly was given a free pass and a bunch of money.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
@adkindo You posted polls. They're nothing but a a guess. I look at them and in some cases hope they come to frution. In others I hope they're wrong. LINK Remember Hilary was a sure thing against Trump.


The polls have not been very accurate. Best guess is that GOP picks up 1-3 seats in the senate as Democrats have a lot more seats up for grabs.

The House looks close I can find reports that go either way. GOP will probably lose seats but who keeps the majority looks to be in question and lose to a toss up. .
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject:

oldlakerfan wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ted wrote:

I don't think he'd let them (and I'm not sure the US let this happen? Not sure on the details tbh). But if it happened under his administration, I really don't think anything would change. He might be more vocal in his anger, but behind the scenes business would run as usual.

Not to turn this into an Obama v Trump argument, but I'm just saying even though Trump is a moron, he basically says out loud what is really going to happen behind the scenes, regardless of who is president. That's how I see it, I may be wrong but I don't think I am.


It's tough to say what would happen with Obama in this circumstance
But he wasn't afraid of upsetting Saudi Arabia.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/277394-how-us-saudi-ties-frayed-under-obama

Quote:
In an interview with the Atlantic published last month, Obama referred to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries as “free riders” unwilling to secure chaotic zones like Libya, angering many in the kingdom.

No single act was more significant than the signing of the Iran deal, which lifted international sanctions in exchange for limits on Tehran’s ability to build a nuclear weapon.

At its heart, the stress comes down to two different interpretations of which presents the greater threat: Iran or extremist groups such as al Qaeda and the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Saudi Arabia has made clear that its priority is on countering Iran, leaving the U.S. out to dry in some of the terrorist fights.

Saudi Arabia sees the Iran nuclear deal as something that will only embolden Tehran and, perhaps more importantly, interpreted its signing as proof that Washington was looking beyond Riyadh to position itself in the Middle East.


Trump used Saudi Arabia as distraction in the midst of a bad news cycle earlier this year. It was very awkward.
https://youtu.be/9O0uR03s7m4


Obama did not have a hard time criticizing the Saudis but Iran who commits far worse atrocities regularly was given a free pass and a bunch of money.


Hey, if you have to tell lies to people who know you're lying, you might not be doing it right?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject:

oldlakerfan wrote:
I don't think anyone is taking the ambulance chasing porn lawyer very seriously but if I was a democrat I sure would like to get this guy off the stage. Imagine if he runs for president and gets on the debate stage.


I don't think anyone is taking the reality tv star, porn actress sexing, often bankrupt "businessman" very seriously but if I was a republican I sure would like to get this guy off the stage. Imagine if he runs for president and gets on the debate stage
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject:





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject:

oldlakerfan wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Nancy Pelosi said today that if they win the House, the first thing they are going to do is get Trump's taxes. She said it's a very easy thing to do.

BUT NO ONE KNOWS THAT BECAUSE KANYE AND KID ROCK VISITED WHITE HOUSE TODAY AND THE MEDIA COVERED IT LIKE A STATE VISIT FROM THE QUEEN.

I know because I follow her on Twitter. But how do you get a message out in the crazy Trump 24/7 news cycle that features 10 crazy things per day?


Just because they ask for his tax returns does not mean they will get them.

Ask those GOP house guys that want all the incriminating evidence on the deep state and they cannot get it even though they are in the same party. They will be going back and forth forever with each party using the event to get their base excited. In the end it will be a waste of time but it will take over the news cycle.


They're not getting incriminating evidence on a conspiracy theory that doesn't exist is the best you can come up with?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject:

I got my vote by mail ballot today in the mail. It's changed. No longer one card you mark a put into a envelope. There are 3) pack ballots.The have propositions, state measures, judicial and school appointments and other measures. I'm in the process of reading and talking to friends and people of knowledge so I can make the best choices. Got straitened out on a proposition by a member of this forum. Thanks buddy. I'm voting I beg all in the forum to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GET OUT AND VOTE!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject:

oldlakerfan wrote:

Obama did not have a hard time criticizing the Saudis but Iran who commits far worse atrocities regularly was given a free pass and a bunch of money.


The Iranian deal was a comprehensive INTERNATIONAL agreement. The EU and P5 helped create the deal as well.

And the only reason Iran agreed to it is because of how tough we were on them for 4 years. Obama spearheaded the toughest Iranian sanctions the country has ever faced.
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

oldlakerfan wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Ted wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
And just in case there was any doubt, Trump DOES NOT CARE IF JOURNALISTS ARE MURDERED. Here it is:

Quote:
Brian Klaas Verified account @brianklaas

Good lord; Trump is saying he's happy to keep doing business selling bombs to the Saudis (who are slaughtering kids in Yemen with them) *even if they murdered a permanent resident of the United States who worked for a major US newspaper...simply because he wants their money*

Quote:
TRUMP: "Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge Khashoggi is not a US citizen, is that right? He's a permanent resident, okay... as to whether we should stop $110b from being spent in this country, that would not be acceptable to me."


And we have no idea of what kind of personal side deals the Saudis and Trump Business have which would cause a massive conflict-of-interest on top of this anti-Democratic jackassery.


Trump is no different than Obama or any other US President in this regard. He's just dumb enough to say it out loud. In a way it's a good thing, at least he's saying what the US government's official policy really is.


No. Trump calls journalists the enemy of the people, liars and evil. He is not only whipping people up at home, he is telling autocrats around the world they are free to do whatever they want to journalist because we won't interfere.

Obama never did that.
Bill Clinton never did that.

I''m tired of these both sides bogus arguments. None of the past presidents is perfect. But Trump's basic immorality is in another stratosphere.

I saw the video and it's even WORSE than the text because his disdain for even being asked the question comes through and he is blatantly dismissive of the idea that the death of this journalist is significant in any way, and it's clear he not bothered by it AT ALL.

It's okay to have a problem with Democratic presidents, but the credibility of your argument falls apart when you try to equate any of them to the current immoral, ignorant, unfeeling, shameless buffoon.


Obama got mostly favorable reporting even though we had poor economic performance and skyrocketing debt despite free money from the Fed. Trump has turned the economy around despite the Fed raising rates and the reporting is 98% negative. There is a reason he attacks the media. I also remember Obama attacking Fox pretty harshly.


First Period: Disputing sophistry

The economic performance was better than the two most recent Republican Presidents; the debt increased 1.7 times, whereas the debt under Reagan increases 2.86 times. The economy today is as much related to Obama's policies as Trump's, though. The one policy change, tax cuts, has increased inflation factored income less than the year's prior. A tax cut benefiting the wealthy will have one primary effect: benefiting the wealthy.

The reporting on Bernie Madoff and Al Capone was also very negative. There is a reason that creeps and cons get such reporting.

I bet you can't recall a single time Obama attacked Fox, though, of course you can Google it. How about you Google that while I Google the number of times Trump has attacked the press, and we then compare notes.
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Last edited by ribeye on Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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