BI/Kuz for DeAndre Ayton?

 
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Would you gamble on Ayton being a generational talent by trading BI and Kuz on draft night?
yes
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
no
90%
 90%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 20

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Runway8
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: BI/Kuz for DeAndre Ayton?

I don't normally do these hypotheticals, but I thought this would be interesting. Would you gamble on Ayton being the next generational talent? A guy who will be right there or even better than Embiid and Towns for top Center in the game?

All these generational talents could actually be had if you pay a team a good price, and before they get to see any time on the court. For example, it would have been nuts to trade PG13 for Utah's 13th pick, right? Utah would have done it in a heartbeat, but not anymore. Do you see the Sixers agreeing to Embiid for Kawhi Leonard today? No way. But if you had offered Kawhi Leonard prior to Embiid showing his game on the floor, the Sixers would have said yes.

It would take some big cajones to offer who ever has the #1 pick BI and Kuz for it. But imagine if your gamble is correct? You've paired the "would be" best center in the game with the "would be" best PG in the game.

When was the last such gamble in the NBA? Not draft night swapping of picks. I mean established players or stars for the potential of draft picks? Norm Nixon for #4? Vlade for #13? But that deal was more out of necessity to clear cap space for Shaq. The best example I can recall of a GM calculating and pre-preemptively betting on the super star potential of a pick was in 91. I remember Golden State dealt Richmond in his prime, who was only 25/26 yrs old, for #3 Billy Owens. The idea was that RUN TMC was not big enough. Billy Owens 6'8, can handle the rock, was a can't miss star in their eyes. It didn't turn out well for them. But it seems in recent years/decade, nobody gambles anymore. But I'm also not good with remembering recent stuff. So if you guys can think of some recent trades, let me know.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: BI/Kuz for DeAndre Ayton?

Runway8 wrote:
I don't normally do these hypotheticals, but I thought this would be interesting. Would you gamble on Ayton being the next generational talent? A guy who will be right there or even better than Embiid and Towns for top Center in the game?

All these generational talents could actually be had if you pay a team a good price, and before they get to see any time on the court. For example, it would have been nuts to trade PG13 for Utah's 13th pick, right? Utah would have done it in a heartbeat, but not anymore. Do you see the Sixers agreeing to Embiid for Kawhi Leonard today? No way. But if you had offered Kawhi Leonard prior to Embiid showing his game on the floor, the Sixers would have said yes.

It would take some big cajones to offer who ever has the #1 pick BI and Kuz for it. But imagine if your gamble is correct? You've paired the "would be" best center in the game with the "would be" best PG in the game.

When was the last such gamble in the NBA? Not draft night swapping of picks. I mean established players or stars for the potential of draft picks? Norm Nixon for #4? Vlade for #13? But that deal was more out of necessity to clear cap space for Shaq. The best example I can recall of a GM calculating and pre-preemptively betting on the super star potential of a pick was in 91. I remember Golden State dealt Richmond in his prime, who was only 25/26 yrs old, for #3 Billy Owens. The idea was that RUN TMC was not big enough. Billy Owens 6'8, can handle the rock, was a can't miss star in their eyes. It didn't turn out well for them. But it seems in recent years/decade, nobody gambles anymore. But I'm also not good with remembering recent stuff. So if you guys can think of some recent trades, let me know.


Now that you mentioned it, the kobe draft trade seems like the kuzma draft trade on steroids. In both cases, we had other reasons for doing the trade, but the 'bonus' far exceeded anyone's expectations.

For all the talk about how great jerry west is, that man also had an incredible amount of luck. Even though I believe that he was one of the people who did see how good kobe was at high school and had the guts to take a gamble on a high school kid, not even west could have dreamed that the vlade trade would have worked out so brilliantly.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Yes. For Luka Doncic.

Doncic+Ball is the literal dream back-court.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject:

I would do Ingram for Ayton easily. Don’t think the other team would do Kuz but tempted at Ingram.

Not just because Ayton is pretty locked as a future HOF barring injuries, we would be set at Center for the next decade and a half.

Ball
George
Kuzma
Randle
Ayton

That front court is insanely strong and Ayton’s jumpshot gives room for Randle to do his layups still.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject:

Lakers4Life33 wrote:
Yes. For Luka Doncic.

Doncic+Ball is the literal dream back-court.


Both BI and Kuz? No way. He may be legit, but that's a bigger gamble than Ayton. I've seen this story before. Years ago, I read heaps of articles about the future of basketball, he hadn't qualified for the NBA draft yet, he was a little baby name Ricky Rubio. Luka may be the real deal, but I have little incentive in gambling wing for wing. Deandre Ayton can be a dominating center. At the top of his ceiling, he will effect the game greater than Doncic can at the top of his.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
Lakers4Life33 wrote:
Yes. For Luka Doncic.

Doncic+Ball is the literal dream back-court.


Both BI and Kuz? No way. He may be legit, but that's a bigger gamble than Ayton. I've seen this story before. Years ago, I read heaps of articles about the future of basketball, he hadn't qualified for the NBA draft yet, he was a little baby name Ricky Rubio. Luka may be the real deal, but I have little incentive in gambling wing for wing. Deandre Ayton can be a dominating center. At the top of his ceiling, he will effect the game greater than Doncic can at the top of his.


Will quote this again in 1 year.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject:

Lakers4Life33 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Lakers4Life33 wrote:
Yes. For Luka Doncic.

Doncic+Ball is the literal dream back-court.


Both BI and Kuz? No way. He may be legit, but that's a bigger gamble than Ayton. I've seen this story before. Years ago, I read heaps of articles about the future of basketball, he hadn't qualified for the NBA draft yet, he was a little baby name Ricky Rubio. Luka may be the real deal, but I have little incentive in gambling wing for wing. Deandre Ayton can be a dominating center. At the top of his ceiling, he will effect the game greater than Doncic can at the top of his.


Will quote this again in 1 year.


Unless he's MVP candidate after 1 year, not sure what you're proving by quoting this in 1 year. I've acknowledge he may be legit, but two wings with upside in Kuz and BI seems lateral unless Doncic plays much better then them. You don't think BI and Kuz would be improving as well? Without a crystal ball, it's the safer bet on a generational big, versus wings, since they are a dime a dozen.

You don't think Houston or Portland saw the upside in Michael Jordan? They just went with the safer bet. Of course I can be wrong, but what I'm saying is Ayton is the safer bet. You are free to be brave about Doncic because you don't have to put anything on the line.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
I would do Ingram for Ayton easily. Don’t think the other team would do Kuz but tempted at Ingram.

Not just because Ayton is pretty locked as a future HOF barring injuries, we would be set at Center for the next decade and a half.

Ball
George
Kuzma
Randle
Ayton

That front court is insanely strong and Ayton’s jumpshot gives room for Randle to do his layups still.

The question as posed is both for Ayton, not just one.
I went for no but I haven't watched Ayton play so it's just conservatism. Kuzma and Ingram are both gonna be good players. I think Ingram will be an all-star in his prime
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject:

I’m not impressed with the kids motor. I think he’ll be the same player rookie until retirement. Amare Stoudemire.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject:

I had to rewatch tape. I also didn't consider cap implications.

Dude is going to be legit, but gets lost with perimeter defense, which is a big advantage the Lakers have with their front-line. Randle can't pick up that slack by himself, and despite the athleticism, the IQ/footwork lack on that end. He can definitely learn, but I wouldn't expect fair perimeter defense next season.

Even with Ayton, he still needs to develop range. He's definitely comfortable, up to 18'.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:11 am    Post subject:

Let’s not keep hitting the reset button. We have our core, let’s move forward.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject:

Since we're doing silly trade scenarios today, I'd much rather give up a lesser combination of players not named Kuzma or BI and go after Mo Bamba who I think has the potential to be elite on both ends of the floor. Whoever ends up with Bamba is going to well rewarded with a top 5 center.
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