CLIPPERS -at- LAKERS -- 10/19 -- Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject:

One thing Farmar will have to learn is to play a bit more without the ball and within the Triangle. From what I've seen he does not initiate the Triangle too much and prefers to create off the dribble. I can't ever see Phil starting a player that is not "Tri-first".

Now that being said, maybe for now the Lakers want that change of strategy type of guard who comes off the bench and leads the offense. It would change the dynamic of the offense in the spurts that he was out there. We already see that.

It's just that unless Farmar becomes a bit more Tri friendly, I don't see Jackson starting him or playing him BIG minutes. The longterm goals for Farmar should be to understand the Tri inside-out and learn to initiate it and be effective. Ofcourse during that time I expect an improved jumper. Once that happens - he is our stud PG under Phil. Someone that can initiate the Tri, playing within it (especially with the starters) and then take over once Kobe's out or the team needs a change of pace.

You know what we wanted Odom to do last year? That's what Farmar will have to learn in the longrun. Once he does that, then you have 3 playmakers who can initiate out there as your starters, one of them being a lead guard who can balance his game (something LO and Kobe have had big problems with at times)
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Klone_dd
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
As far as livingston posting up farmar, I thinklthat's a physical advantage the 6-7 player has over most point guards, based on size and athletecism. It's a big part of what makes him special. Not comparing farmar to them, but nash, parker (tony), CP3, etc. are all going to have that problem with livingston. what impressed me about farmar was that he did a credible job of bodying up, and attacked relentlessly on offense, with and without the ball. The fact that he can get wherever he wants to with the ball against good defenders and is almost better at moving without it makes him valuable in a lot of lineups.


Livingston vs Farmar will be a nice rivalry in LA for many years.

If Farmar's going to play in crunch time, Phil will have to re-adjust his defense so that we don't get killed with a big/little pick and roll. Farmar shouldn't be left to guard a big by himself like Smush was in the Phx series.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:44 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
From what I've seen he does not initiate the Triangle too much and prefers to create off the dribble. I can't ever see Phil starting a player that is not "Tri-first".


Have you noticed quite a bit of that playmaking is done within the triangle offense?

Why do you think I preached for a 3-dimensional triangle offense?

I thought it was so blatantly obvious how Farmar blends his game into the triangle perfect.

If I have to sit through another year of "Point guards" who stand behind the arc, pick their nose, and shoot 3 pointers, I'll burn Mitch's desk.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:45 pm    Post subject:

psydesho wrote:
Hey DB -

That call against Green when Magette pumped was the worse of the game. Green went straight up about 1.5 ft from Magette and Corey jumped into him. They have to call that as an offensive or the defender has no ability to guard someone.

Smush's look away behind the back pass was Magic like. It was beautiful.



Yeah, that completely froze the D. Very, very nice.

Quote:


Farmar is looking great out there. Do you think his effectiveness wanes with him and Kobe and Kwame on the floor with LO and whoever?


I think he plays off the ball extremely well. I don't see it being a problem. He should complement the more ball dominant players in Kobe and LO. And, his shooting (as it improves and it will) will spread the floor. Can't wait to see him out there with our best perimeter player, Kobe. If he can create shots for him...very nice.
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Lamar really disappointed me last night. He just refused to go to the post at all during most of the game. It was okay when Smush was posting the guards or Andrew was down low, but otherwise he had ample opportunity to destroy the Clippers front court since Caveman was in street clothes. Why do you think he stayed on the perimeter so much?


He's seemed out of sync quite a bit. Hopefully, when Kobe gets back and crowds the perimeter a little more, he will push LO down there more.
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
From what I've seen he does not initiate the Triangle too much and prefers to create off the dribble. I can't ever see Phil starting a player that is not "Tri-first".


Have you noticed quite a bit of that playmaking is done within the triangle offense?

Why do you think I preached for a 3-dimensional triangle offense?

I thought it was so blatantly obvious how Farmar blends his game into the triangle perfect.

If I have to sit through another year of "Point guards" who stand behind the arc, pick their nose, and shoot 3 pointers, I'll burn Mitch's desk.


Phil seems to play that Kobe guy a lot and even purposely breaks the Tri for him. Luke, Farmar, Kobe know how to play in this offense and know when to break it and create on their own advantage or improvise when needed. Playing the Tri is the least of the worries for Farmar.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:50 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
From what I've seen he does not initiate the Triangle too much and prefers to create off the dribble. I can't ever see Phil starting a player that is not "Tri-first".


Have you noticed quite a bit of that playmaking is done within the triangle offense?

Why do you think I preached for a 3-dimensional triangle offense?

I thought it was so blatantly obvious how Farmar blends his game into the triangle perfect.

If I have to sit through another year of "Point guards" who stand behind the arc, pick their nose, and shoot 3 pointers, I'll burn Mitch's desk.

I see where you're coming from, but you're not getting my point. I was talking about things from Phil's perspective.

Phil absolutely hates TO's. It's the reason he is higher on Mihm than Kwame and will not give Bynum PT. Phil also wants the Triangle run more than anything.

So while Farmar is looking great, him starting under Phil will only happen once he's fully accumalated in the Triangle and willing to make that the first offensive option. Meaning when he goes down the court, he's looking to initiate the Triangle.

For now, the way I see them using Farmar is someone that can lead the 2nd unit through his lead guard abilities. Instead of seeing scrubs out there trying to run the Tri unsuccessfully, you'll see Farmar creating for them or taking over himself. No quams with that if used smartly (which is what Phil will do) but for him to take the next step he will need to be more than that. He will have to earn Phil's trust as a player that will run the Triangle.


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:50 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Playing the Tri is the least of the worries for Farmar.


Agreed. He knows and executes it better than most of the roster.
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Texas_Pete
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject:

Last night was the 1st time I saw Farmar in game time action, since... ESPN highlights of the NCAA tournament! He is the future PG of the Lakers. About the only thing he needs is clock-management and that will come with experience. I absolutely loved his 2-man game with Luke last night. Smush is still the starter in my eyes, but he better improve his playmaking ability if he wants to keep his job past this year.

Collectively, the Lakers were short-handed, but they competed and that is all you can ask for.
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golakersgo121
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Playing the Tri is the least of the worries for Farmar.


Agreed. He knows and executes it better than most of the roster.


Thus far he is playing it better than Kobe and Lamar as well.

Wow!
I never thought I would say something like that....
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eniq 0x00
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:42 pm    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
magic_bryant wrote:
I don't see how people continue to make excuses for Odom. Dude still can't go right, still making horrible decisions down the stretch, etc.

But hey, "he's a good guy".

:roll:

If he doesn't start looking like a winner down the stretch of games, he'll likely be moved for someone who can.


Lamar was pretty uncharacteristic last night. Not so much because of the mistakes, but more because of the way he kinda went ballhog on everybody there in the last few minutes. Farmar brought us back, he was doing his thing, and the Clips couldn't do anything with him. And Lamar just took the ball and the playmaking away from him.


Someone actually called Farmar a ballhog in some other forum. What I love about Farmar is how he lets the game come to him. He doesn't seem afraid to score and has the ability to do so-a guy who can set people up, yet won't be too unselfish. I wish Odom would find a healthy balance in his game like that-he still overpasses, and passes up good post opportunities from time to time (sometimes that 6 footer is better than the pass to an 18 footer).
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^^ Farmar

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BeeBackLakerFan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
If I have to sit through another year of "Point guards" who stand behind the arc, pick their nose, and shoot 3 pointers, I'll burn Mitch's desk.


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expertla
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
RYZ wrote:

And why suddenly can't Pinnock convert a dunk? The guy looked like Harold Freaking Miner in the SPL (and don't give me any of that "it's the SPL" jazz, this kid is quite capable of finishing semi-contested dunks)?

Yeah, I agree his finishing right now has disappeared with the rest of his offensive game. Even the open jumpers are bricking. He's playing some quality D, which is good.


I posted this in another thread, so please forgive me for being a bit redundant, but eventhough Pinnock is obviously pressing, I can clearly see why Tex referred to him as "a keeper". I think he definitely has NBA ability. I would keep him over Green without question.

I have honestly been looking for some sort of game from Green for over a year. IMO it simply isn't there. He has good size and his strong suite is supposed to be his defense, but from what I've seen, his D is nowhere near good enough to make a NBA career out of. Especially since he can't shoot a lick. To me, the choice between the two is clear.
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: CLIPPERS -at- LAKERS -- 10/19 -- Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

DancingBarry wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
DB - As usual, appreciative your analyzing eyes. Do you think that Bynum has enough stamina to be the starter or will Turiaff be the starter at "5?" Even if Bynum is the starter, how minutes do you feel that he will realistically play? With LO at the "5" - it could be Vlad at "4" - Luke at "3" - Kobe at "2" - Jordan at "1" ==== this would be a fast lineup that might not be able to bang, but outside of Houston, that might not be a major concern
Tough call. Might depend on the opponet to some extent. But he was looking a bit winded out there at times. That was Turiaf's weakest game, so that kind of pushed Bynum out there more. Not sure how many minutes he can last. We'll keep a close eye on it as he gets some extended stints.
It appears that with Kwame/Mihm out, P&G are also utilizing LO and Cook at the "5" - their version of "Small Ball." Outside of Houston and (possibly) Miami/San Antonio - the Lakers might be OK.

Re: Farmar
He is not a player like Harper/BShaw/Smush/etc. that will always initiates off the pass. He has the knowledge, mindset and skills to do initiate off the pass and the dribble - a great weapon. Being 6'2" - we are seeing his ability to guard taller opponents via his quickness, at least a lot more than Smush.
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RYZ
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:06 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
From what I've seen he does not initiate the Triangle too much and prefers to create off the dribble. I can't ever see Phil starting a player that is not "Tri-first".


Have you noticed quite a bit of that playmaking is done within the triangle offense?

Why do you think I preached for a 3-dimensional triangle offense?

I thought it was so blatantly obvious how Farmar blends his game into the triangle perfect.

If I have to sit through another year of "Point guards" who stand behind the arc, pick their nose, and shoot 3 pointers, I'll burn Mitch's desk.

I see where you're coming from, but you're not getting my point. I was talking about things from Phil's perspective.

Phil absolutely hates TO's. It's the reason he is higher on Mihm than Kwame and will not give Bynum PT. Phil also wants the Triangle run more than anything.

So while Farmar is looking great, him starting under Phil will only happen once he's fully accumalated in the Triangle and willing to make that the first offensive option. Meaning when he goes down the court, he's looking to initiate the Triangle.



What on Earth?

Farmar's running the triangle masterfully. He looks like he's been playing in the system for years. A couple of things to watch:

1. The majority of Farmar's turnovers have not come on overdribbling expeditions, but rather equal parts anticipating incorrectly where his teammate is going to be (hasn't played with them); questionable offensive fouls (refs do that to rookies); and simply trying to do much with a pass (rookies press). By and large, the offense runs remarkably smoothly when he's out there, because he sees the intial entry pass so well and is so willing to make the simple lag pass if it's not there. He reads nicely where to go to receive the next pass, and when he receives it he's almost invariably cutting to the basket or hittting someone with a nice pass in position to score. Watch how rarely he seems out of sorts after initiating the offense in the frontcourt.

2. The vast majority of his jumpers come off catch & shoots or curl & catch one dribble pull-ups, very much within the offense. I've yet to see him pull up from distance in transition or after having pounded the ball into the ground in the half court.

3. Dribble penetration and the triangle offense are not mutually exclusive. Just because the tri relies primarily on passing to gain entry to the post doesn't mean getting there via the dribble is precluded, especially when good tri spacing has created the driving lane. Thank goodness for that. All it means is the likes of Shammond don't need to be dribbling into traffic and jumping in the air to make a pass 15' behind himself.

If Farmar is doing anything out there, he's looking to initiate the triangle.
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